Best Reward / Cash Back Credit Cards

[Argyll]

@3c3

Amex T&C has this clause: “if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it”, so plan to pay for the second annual fee as well for the BCP.

Everyday has no annual fee.

[3c3]

@Argyll

Everyday has no annual fee.

I didn’t say anything about Everyday having an annual fee.

[StatGren]

@3c3

Amex T&C has this clause: “if you cancel or downgrade your account within 12 months after acquiring it”, so plan to pay for the second annual fee as well for the BCP.

I may have a data point on that shortly, although it wasn’t intentional to create one. First of all, BCP annual fee runs calendar year, so first year you pay a prorated amount (e.g. $79.16 on February 9 for 2018). And the timing of that is interesting because I upgraded from BCE to BCP on 11/24/17. On 12/15/18 I downgraded back to BCE because it was over the 12-month mark, and the rep did say my new $95 annual fee would be refunded. There was no mention of the $250 clawback.

I’m a little uncomfortable they haven’t posted the $95 refund yet, but at least no mention still of the clawback.

[glitch99]

@Argyll

It’s something to consider when getting a new card. For example: the Amex Preferred card nets a current cardholder 4.4% back on groceries, If one applies for the Amex Everyday card and uses it instead, one would net 5.5% back on groceries the first year.

In which case, you should only consider the $1k spending necessary to trigger the bonus. The additional $5k spending beyond that will only be earning 3% since the bonus will have already been earned.

[Argyll]

@glitch99

In which case, you should only consider the $1k spending necessary to trigger the bonus. The additional $5k spending beyond that will only be earning 3% since the bonus will have already been earned.

Not really. You have to hold the card a year anyway to keep the bonus, so why pay $95 for the BCP card? It’s the only other card with a higher regular rate for groceries and I don’t need two cards. After a year I’d then upgrade the Everyday card to the BCP if possible, but if you still have one you can’t do that.

[glitch99]

@Argyll

Not really. You have to hold the card a year anyway to keep the bonus, so why pay $95 for the BCP card? It’s the only other card with a higher regular rate for groceries and I don’t need two cards. After a year I’d then upgrade the Everyday card to the BCP if possible, but if you still have one you can’t do that.

Yes, really. After the first $1k, which earns the bonus, the rest only earns 3%. That may or may not still be your best option, but the bonus is no longer a factor in what using that card is getting you.

[Argyll]

According to a rep, if you downgrade within 30 days of the fee date, you get the whole thing refunded. If it’s longer than 30 days, it’s pro-rated.

[Argyll]

I count everything as a factor: multiple bonuses, regular rewards, 0% APR for 15 months, money that can be kept in savings, and time factors in applying for and changing cards,

Plus I might downgrade the BCP card and get a pro-rated refund.

[shinobi]

An interesting outcome for me with my Discover Miles card. This was new to me. Might not be so for others.

I did my last large charge to the card prior to Christmas. After Christmas and prior to my statement closing, and in accord with Argyll’s rule, I paid off a really large balance in full.

At my age I guess stuff like this can happen. After making that large payment, for some reason (confusion?), I charged a very small eBay purchase, via PayPal, to my Discover card. The charge was scarcely more than one dollar. I discovered my error last Friday and immediately sent Discover slightly more than a buck to cover the charge.

Go into my Discover account this morning and, lo and behold, the money I sent them on Friday is showing as a CREDIT to my account (negative balance). I was expecting a zero balance.

Scratched my head. Did not understand. Another error on my part?

Nope.

Discover, unbeknownst to me, had credited the money to my account on their own, wiping out my PayPal debit. They labelled this:

“SMALL BALANCE CREDIT”

Never ran into this prior. Nice folks those Discover folks!

[meed18]

@shinobi

Discover, unbeknownst to me, had credited the money to my account on their own, wiping out my PayPal debit. They labelled this:

“SMALL BALANCE CREDIT”

Never ran into this prior. Nice folks those Discover folks!

There was a thread somewhere, either on FW, here, or some other site (or some combination) that listed all the card issuers that forgive balances under $1.

EDIT: under $X.YZ

[meed18]

@Argyll

I count everything as a factor: multiple bonuses, regular rewards, 0% APR for 15 months, money that can be kept in savings, and time factors in applying for and changing cards,

I think everyone here agrees that you should count everything as a factor and no one is saying you don’t. But I think most of us agree with @Bend3r and @glitch99 that the best way of expressing the percentage cash back is not to say you’ll get “x% in the first year if you spend y” when a portion of that is the bonus paid on the first z and has no bearing on y. Anyone playing the card bonus game should be smart enough to look at them separately.

[Argyll]

A card with 0% APR for 15 months means you can float most of your balance and earn 2% or more on money in savings for up to 15 months in addition to the 3% rewards on groceries. You can’t do that with existing cards.

I’m not just playing the bonus card game.

I’m playing the entire credit card game.

[shinobi]

@meed18

There was a thread somewhere, either on FW, here, or some other site (or some combination) that listed all the card issuers that forgive balances under $1.

Agreed. I, too, recall seeing that way back. That said, the balance they paid off for me was slightly in excess of $1.00.

Of all the new CC relationships I have begun in this last year, Discover has been the best. It’s a pleasure being their customer. However:

They already owe me a FORTUNE not due to be paid until later this year. If they do not come up with that dough my tune will change for certain.

[meed18]

@Argyll

A card with 0% APR for 15 months means you can float most of your balance (aside from minimum payments) and earn 2% or more on your money in savings for up to 15 months in addition to the 3% rewards on groceries. You can’t do that with existing cards.

I’m not just playing the bonus card game.

I’m playing the entire credit card game.

No one here is saying it’s not a good card and no one is saying that you don’t play the whole game, we just took issue with the way you framed the card’s capabilities below:

@Argyll

If you spend $6K at the grocery store the first year that works out to 7.5% cash back.

The first indication that this is the wrong way to frame it is that this is exactly how THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES THEMSELVES frame it.

If you’re going to spend money on groceries, which we all do, it’s probably one of the best, if not the best no annual fee card out there. BUT, it is important to note, for people who have opening bonus opportunities, that after you get the initial bonus, you are “only” getting 3% back. That is less than if you put that grocery spending toward many other card’s opening bonus spend. What you said wasn’t misleading, it just doesn’t paint the picture as well as “You get $125 from SlickDeals for just signing up, $150 after spending $1,000 in the first 3 months (which is 15% back), and 3% back on all groceries.” The part that is misleading is that you arbitrarily say “in the first year.” That is because you usually only hear those words used to describe cards with an annual fee. BCE has no annual fee.

This is also misleading:

@Argyll

the Amex Preferred card nets a current cardholder 4.4% back on groceries, If one applies for the Amex Everyday card and uses it instead, one would net 5.5% back on groceries the first year.

1. The cash back on the BCP depends on how much you spend since it has a fee, so 4.4% relates to a specific spend amount.
2. You use the “in the first year” language to compare a no fee card to a fee card.

[Argyll]

I referred in previous posts to the $6K spending limit for rewards on groceries. I compared a no fee card to a fee card by deducting the fee from the rewards, which was the main point of the comparison.

I have a BCP card and last year spent almost exactly $6K in groceries that pay 6% rewards. Minus the $95 fee it amounts to 4.4%. This is exactly how it works.

[Bend3r]

@Argyll

There is nothing misleading. This is exactly how it works.

Fully agreed that It’s technically still true/accurate, but it just makes it more difficult to compare cards. The reason is because each card has different requirements associated with the offer. Myself, I actually convert the % to a fixed amount to add to the opening bonus.

Then I’m left with two components:

1. Fixed component, $ for X amount of spend in Y months. This would be where I’d generally stop in the calculation I might “share”.
   I may include the category bonus only if it’s a very broad category and I only include the amount this exceeds my current card(s). If you also are valuing open BT offers, these could also be added here. Myself, I may also subtract transaction costs if I intend to use property tax, income tax, or utilities to fulfill the requirements.
2. Ongoing value, if any, over my existing cards after the opening bonus is earned. If I’ll make an extra net $50 annually in rewards, I could then convert that back to a present value if I really wanted to, but I usually don’t because it’s unpredictable when the benefits will be cut several years in the future.

The benefit I see in this method is you can directly compare $X total value for $Y spend for the efforts of one new account.

If you instead convert to %, you can’t directly compare them and it can make it more complicated. For a hypothetical example: 50% return on $150 spend is clearly not a better benefit than 15% on $5k. The 50% note is pretty much meaningless in my example.

[Argyll]

I just applied and was approved for the BCE card. The slickdeals site said the bonus info was submitted successfully, so I might not use the card at all and just take the $125. That’s a bazillion% cash back!!

[glitch99]

@meed18

There was a thread somewhere, either on FW, here, or some other site (or some combination) that listed all the card issuers that forgive balances under $1.

It was at FatWallet. Discover cancels up to $1.99, BTW.

[glitch99]

@Argyll

A card with 0% APR for 15 months means you can float most of your balance and earn 2% or more on money in savings for up to 15 months in addition to the 3% rewards on groceries. You can’t do that with existing cards.

I’m not just playing the bonus card game.

I’m playing the entire credit card game.

The point is, after earning the bonus, you need to re-evaluate your continued usage of the account. No one has said you shouldnt continue using it; the point is after you’ve earned the initial bonus, that bonus is no longer a benefit from continuing using that card.

[glitch99]

@Argyll

I referred in previous posts to the $6K spending limit for rewards on groceries. I compared a no fee card to a fee card by deducting the fee from the rewards, which was the main point of the comparison.

I have a BCP card and last year spent almost exactly $6K in groceries that pay 6% rewards. Minus the $95 fee it amounts to 4.4%. This is exactly how it works.

That is how it works. But previously, you were including the signup bonus in the cashback rate for the full year, instead of just for the spending that earned the bonus.

The value of using a particular card is the incremental value being adding with each transaction. Once a spending bonus has been earned, the next dollar of spending is not earning those bonus dollars.

@Argyll

I just applied and was approved for the BCE card. The slickdeals site said the bonus info was submitted successfully, so I might not use the card at all and just take the $125. That’s a bazillion% cash back!!

If there is no spending required, than that $125 is just a flat bonus. It isnt attributed to any spending done on the account, so it does no reflect any value being added from using that account. It would be incorrect to use that $125 in calculating the benefits of using that account.