I would still sue. The arbitration clause is a defense that they would need to assert in response to your suit (hiring a lawyer to do so) - and very likely would instead try to resolve the issue with you.
1 Like
Not every dispute is so straightforward. Also, if you believe you can do better on your own, nothing stops you from opting out of a class action and pursuing the matter individually.
3 Likes
That’s a bit disingenuous – a $500 problem is never solved by a $50 class action check alone. They’ll usually pay to fix the problem. The class action checks I receive are usually for things I didn’t even know were a problem, or were too small to pursue on my own (like asking for ZIP code while processing a credit card payment, illegally recording phone conversations, or overcharging me for computer parts or airline tickets due to corporate collusion, allegedly).
1 Like
If you didn’t sign anything, it is probably not binding.
Not universally true, unfortunately – it depends on the exact circumstances and applicable state law. There’s a 9th Circuit case, Norcia v. Samsung, applying California law, where Samsung lost on this issue, but IIRC Samsung has also had success in at least one other jurisdiction. There’s also some older precedent that’s unfavorable, like Hill v. Gateway 2000 in the 7th Circuit.
1 Like
As a starting point on the replies to my post, I’m not in favor of mandatory binding arbitration in consumer agreements. If there was a panel on the pros and cons of mandatory binding arbitration for consumers, I’d be arguing on the con side. That said, the provisions exist in lots of contracts, and I think there are situations where consumers can take advantage of the terms of those provisions.
This is a separate issue. I find this method used by LG to be wholly unacceptable, and don’t believe this should create any sort of binding contract. This sort of “notification” based contract has always seemed inappropriate to me. It’s similar to shrink-wrap software contracts, but in those cases, at least now, consumers are well aware of this method of contracting. Whether that’s fair or not is still debatable, but it’s surely more fair than what LG has done here given the standard practice. I’m still opposed to shrink-wrap contracts in all consumer transactions.
A problem for sure, but that’s just how the law works. It’s not exactly LG’s fault that consumers don’t understand the terms in a contract. And no, I don’t think LG is intentionally using complicated terms - they’re using terms that other companies have used and have survived scrutiny. Most contract writing lawyers don’t like to be trailblazers with regard to language.
I think this still goes to (1) above, but if you’re just referring to arbitration provisions generally, the company is giving the consumer an opportunity to choose between two contractual terms. Given the choice of allowing a consumer to opt-out, or not allowing a consumer to opt-out, surely the choice to opt-out is beneficial to the consumer (assuming the contract would otherwise be enforceable without providing an option to opt-out).
This is again, a separate issue. However, the policy behind allowing class action lawsuits isn’t about providing benefits to would-be plaintiffs. It’s about deterrence, and class action lawsuits generally involve systematic bad behavior. So on a macro scale, class action waivers are bad for consumers, but on an individual basis there isn’t much detriment to the consumer for not being able to participate in a class action.
I have zero knowledge of FINRA arbitration (or the securities industry at all), but I have seen arbitration provisions in consumer contracts where the claimant picks one arbitrator, respondent picks one arbitrator, and those two arbitrators pick the third. These kinds of terms in the provisions make the process less subject to bias.
It would be very inappropriate. First, companies simply wouldn’t be able to effectively defend claims. The reason for statutes of limitations isn’t for a wrongdoer to be able to say “phew, I’m free.” It’s just unfair to subject people and companies to an unlimited time period in which people can bring civil claims.Documents get destroyed, people die, people/companies lose access to people who may be able to defend them, and memories fade.
Second, companies have to place reserves for potential liabilities on their balance sheets. As a practical matter, passing a law like this would require companies to analyze their potential liabilities. I don’t know what the long-term effects of this would be on the financial markets, but I do know it’s a good way to erase all the gains of the last several years.
Third, and possibly the most scary, is the slippery slope argument. And I do admit that there are problems with this argument, but I don’t see a distinction between arbitration agreements and things that many people may find even more egregious. As one example (and if you’re already in favor of this, surely you can imagine other things which you wouldn’t be in favor of, with the same effects), what if Roe v Wade is overturned and a state all of a sudden passed a law that abortions are retroactively illegal, and any doctor who has performed an abortion is immediately subject to losing their license, despite the fact that abortions were legal at the time they performed the abortion? This doesn’t seem totally out of the realm of possibility.
As an aside, if you’re interested in reading cases, there was a Supreme Court opinion a couple years ago on the topic. I don’t know the case name, but CalPERS was one of the parties. I don’t recall the details, but they were discussing tolling of SOLs and analyzing the applicability of American Pipe.
2 Likes
I agree with that concern. But I would note that this wouldn’t be entirely without precedent – serious violent crimes (like murder) usually do not have an SOL, though of course that varies by state. There’s no question that, for all the reasons you mentioned, it’s probably going to be significantly easier to defend against, say, an accusation made today of an attempted rape that occurred in the last year than one in the 1980s. If out-of-SOL claims were revived, do you think taking a page out of criminal law and applying the higher “reasonable doubt” standard might balance things better?
I’d also consider the justification of the delayed discovery rule some jurisdictions have on civil fraud causes of action. If you can’t escape legal consequences for fraud by running out the clock while the victim hasn’t yet discovered the fraud, why should it be possible to escape legal consequences by running out the clock while the victim has no way of effectively pursuing the claim? (This argument works better on smaller claims, where individual arbitrations or small claims actions aren’t really practical, or larger claims where the cost of proving the claim will be more expensive than the relief any individual person/entity is entitled to, as was the case in Amex v. Italian Colors.)
I see the argument here, particularly with respect to the impact on everyone’s 401(k), IRA, pension, etc., but at the same time it feels quite similar to “we can’t let the banks fail or else” (which I guess is technically true, though that could have been handled much better). It’s troubling.
This is a persuasive argument, and I think “slippery slope” is appropriate. I do see somewhat of a distinction, though: revoking medical licenses for performing what was a lawful act when it occurred would be a state action, while reviving private civil claims and enabling the aggrieved party/parties to litigate those claims on their own would not be. The former, while not technically criminal, feels closer to an ex post facto clause issue. Unfortunately, I suspect (but hope I’m wrong) something like this would have a good chance of surviving scrutiny, since it’s not a retroactive application of a criminal law.
Thanks. Looks like it’s CalPERS v. ANZ Securities.
2 Likes
Tried to take them to arbitration just to find out that they don’t pay their arbitration company so you CANNOT go to arbitration. You have to sue them which they know will take years and years… DON’T BUY LG.
Huh? Something sounds off here.
And it sounds like the grounds for another, separate arbitration claim.
2 Likes
Uh, small claims court shouldn’t take that long. The small claims limit should cover the vast majority of LG appliances, and it certainly won’t take years and years.
1 Like
This is a really old thread, but Consumer Reports is garbage these days. It is really sad.
And New York Times bought Wirecutter and gives them prominent placement, and they are worse than garbage. They exude confidence as they give out terrible advice.
I tend to get my advice from old school forums that specialize in something. For example, I found some great advice about electric shavers in one of the shaver’s forums and got myself a real winner in the Panasonic Arc5.
1 Like
I would expect an old school forum on shaving to be about nothing but single blades and glycerin bars 
.
1 Like
You’re not old enough, young’un. That would be about soap, brushes, and straight razors.
I haven’t subscribed for a few years, but saw a copy five or six months ago. You are right, sad plus I am surprised it fell apart so fast.
2 Likes
You’re right. I had a brief internal debate before posting – I’m pretty sure glycerin bars are superior to soap and just as cheap and long-lasting. Also I forgot what a “straight razor” was called and didn’t want to look it up 
.
1 Like
Actually you are right. I got the advice from one of those single blade type forums. Surprisingly, the safety razor crowd did have some strong opinions about which electric razors are worth a damn and it turned out they were right.
I have given up on Amazon ratings forever and as I said Wirecutter and CR cannot be trusted.
1 Like
I know this is an old thread, but I just stumbled into here today while doing some research on LG washers.
I want to thank everyone who posted in this thread, it was very informative!!!
MY two cents on the subject of forced arbitration goes something like this. If a corporation does something positive for the consumer, it does so because it a) had to so because they would lose market share to the competition if they didn’t do it, or b) was forced to by the government.
I’ve never heard of anybody running to buy an appliance because they wanted arbitration if something bad happened. And I’ve never heard of a legal case where the government punished a company because it didn’t offer arbitration.
I’m willing to bet that if a consumer sends an opt-out e-mail, has a problem down the road, and demands arbitration; the corporation would agree to arbitration!
I will probably buy an LG front loader washing machine tomorrow. I will send the opt-out e-mail AND ALSO send a notarized letter via certified mail to the head office. Despite what their piece of paper says, proof of mailing via certified letter has been accepted as proper notice since, well, forever! If corporations have somehow acquired the right to not accept certified mail as notice, then a judge is going to have to tell me so when he dismisses my case!
1 Like
Good luck with your washer. I’ve only owned one LG “appliance”. It is a vacuum cleaner, and works incredibly well. My only problem with it is that LG quit selling parts for it less than 5 years after my purchase. 
Knowing that, and that it was such a great vacuum, I would have purchased two.
We ended up with a GE for about half the price. I can’t believe it’s already been 4+ years, but the GE has been a good washer. My only complaint about it is one of their selling points. The drum is tilted slightly to the back so that it’s easier to load and unload. The only problem is that all of the clothes sort of fall to the back of the washer, meaning that you have to reach much further into the machine to reach them.