House painter denies getting payment. How to proceed?

[glitch99]

@vadeltachi

It took about two weeks for them to discern that the check had never been cashed (even though I told them I had the check in my possession).

People rarely report missing checks when they are holding the check. They had to follow their lost payment investigation process regardless.

Sidenote - How does a bank wire money to a person’s or business’s mailing address?

[scripta]

@vadeltachi

Sometimes the bill paying agent sends a check drawn on my account. It is not deducted from my account until it’s cashed and paid. Sometimes it sends a check from its own account on Northern Trust that is deducted from my account on the payment date. Sometimes there is no check sent at all and funds are wired. Sometimes they are wired and sometimes they are paid by my check and sometimes they are paid by a Northern Trust account.

There is no method or reason that I can discern (or the bank can or will explain) other than the larger check amount, the higher the likelihood it will be paid through Northern Trust or wired.

Sounds like you need to find a better (more predictable/reliable/consistent) way to pay your bills

[Full_Disclosure]

@vadeltachi

There is no method or reason that I can discern (or the bank can or will explain) other than the larger check amount, the higher the likelihood it will be paid through Northern Trust or wired.

I inquired about what happens when funds are withdrawn from my account but never collected by the intended recipient, and no one could articulate any process.

I’ve never understood why people use these kinds of banks. Don’t all major banks offer family office/private client services?

[gwraigty]

@Full_Disclosure

I’ve never understood why people use these kinds of banks. Don’t all major banks offer family office/private client services?

I haven’t used a local bank in years. Online banks have their advantages. No minimum balance requirements to earn interest, ATM fees reimbursed, free checks, free online bill paying. I’ve not had the inconsistencies that @vadeltachi has experienced. All of our bills are paid electronically.

In the OP’s situation though, I probably would have just written out a manual check and mailed it myself. That way, until it’s cashed, there would be no deduction from the account. At any rate, this should be settled by tomorrow, right?

[meed18]

@glitch99

That also likely violates anti-spam laws. Unless you are requesting they send payment to a particular email address rather than an address or payee (which no billpay service does), they cant send messages to whatever random email you happen to give them.

Eh, probably not. My Wells Fargo business checking account has a Bill Pay feature where I pay a monthly fee and a per payment fee to send ACHs. I have the option of entering in the payee’s email address and WF will send the payee an email letting them know the ACH is coming. It sounds like the exact feature atikovi is talking about, but he wants it for his personal account and when he is mailing a check. If it doesn’t violate laws to email when sending a business ACH, I don’t see how it would when sending a personal check.

@glitch99

Besides, why would the recipient care any more that a random bank tells them “the check is in the mail” instead of yourself? They get the check or they dont, either way; if they dont get the check, their bank account is still empty regardless of who told them what. I think what you mean to say is it’ll make yourself feel better knowing such notification will help validate your excuse when a check gets lost, even though the payee probably isnt going to care beyond the fact they havent been paid.

It seems like a reasonable feature request to me.

@glitch99

Sidenote - How does a bank wire money to a person’s or business’s mailing address?

I assume he’s referring to the large billers like power, cell phone, cable companies. When you do Bill Pay with your bank, your bank just ACHs the money to those companies. It doesn’t send a check.

@scripta

Sounds like you need to find a better (more predictable/reliable/consistent) way to pay your bills

@gwraigty

I’ve not had the inconsistencies that @vadeltachi has experienced. All of our bills are paid electronically.

@vadeltachi is explaining the inconsistencies of the online bill pay process that are likely inherent to most banks. Have you looked to see when your bills show up as paid via your payees vs. when the money comes out of your account like he has? Have you sent a check to yourself via bill pay like he has? If not, I will bet you that your bank has similar inconsistencies that his has, you just don’t see them because as long as your bill gets paid on time and you don’t look at the details, you never will.

[glitch99]

@meed18

Sidenote - How does a bank wire money to a person’s or business’s mailing address?

I assume he’s referring to the large billers like a power, cell phone, cable companies. When you do Bill Pay with your bank, your bank just ACHs the money to those companies. It doesn’t send a check.

He said they send a wire. That is not an ACH. And while it is my fault for assuming, using their list of established payees and entering in your own individual payee information is a pretty obvious difference, which I assumed was not a factor since he said there was no discernible difference.

[gwraigty]

@meed18

I’ve not had the inconsistencies that @vadeltachi has experienced. All of our bills are paid electronically.

@vadeltachi is explaining the inconsistencies of the online bill pay process that are likely inherent to most banks. Have you looked to see when your bills show us as paid via your payees vs. when the money comes out of your account like he has? Have you sent a check to yourself via bill pay like he has? If not, I will bet you that your bank has similar inconsistencies that his has, you just don’t see them because as long as your bill gets paid on time and you don’t look at the details, you never will.

My response was to @Full_Disclosure, mainly to explain the benefits I find in online banking vs. using a local bank. Why are you being argumentative? I’m not the one with the problem here, if there even is one. I hope the OP returns to share the resolution to this.

[meed18]

@glitch99

He said they send a wire. That is not an ACH. And while it is my fault for assuming, using their list of established payees and entering in your own individual payee information is a pretty obvious difference, which I assumed was not a factor since he said there was no discernible difference.

I think he is mistaken when he said funds are wired.

I see what you mean about using their list vs. entering the information yourself. @vadeltachi, can you clarify?

[atikovi]

I logged in to my billpay, found the screen showing the the check was issued and sent and took a photograph of that page. Emailed it as an attached to the painter on Saturday. Will check back later today and see if he got the check yet.

[meed18]

@gwraigty

Why are you being argumentative? I’m not the one with the problem here, if there even is one.

I should have quoted you and full disclosure. I think what vadeltachi was describing is common for most banks with bill pay features (but I think he said wire and meant ACH). I think we would actually have to take a deep dive like he did in order to find out if our bank has some of the same inconsistencies. @vadeltachi, what bank were you referencing?

[Full_Disclosure]

I was specifically referring to having your accounts with a bank like northern trust (UHNW). Not online vs B&M and not saying that other banks would be better at bill pay.

With regard to bill pay, unless the bank is paying you to use it or you’re using it to integrate with quicken, etc., in my opinion there are much better methods to send money.

[meed18]

@Full_Disclosure

I was specifically referring to having your accounts with a bank like northern trust (UHNW). Not online vs B&M and not saying that other banks would be better at bill pay.

@vadeltachi didn’t specify, so I’m only assuming of course, but I don’t think his bank is actually Northern Trust. I googled northern trust bill pay and aside from the hits from northern trust’s site, i saw two blog posts of people that use fidelity and bank of america who had issues with their bill pay checks coming from northern trust. I think northern trust is a big bill pay processor for multiple banks.

[scripta]

@meed18

Have you looked to see when your bills show up as paid via your payees vs. when the money comes out of your account like he has? Have you sent a check to yourself via bill pay like he has? If not, I will bet you that your bank has similar inconsistencies that his has, you just don’t see them because as long as your bill gets paid on time and you don’t look at the details, you never will.

I understand what he described, and yes, I have paid attention to how my bank pays the bills. I use Discover Bank (one of the best Checking + Savings combos IMO). The money is deducted from my account when the payment clears the recipient’s bank – same day for electronic payments (the “scheduled delivery” day), days or weeks for mailed payments (whenever the recipient deposits).

[atikovi]

Painter got the check today.

[scripta]

LOL. All this for nothin…

[atikovi]

It shouldn’t take 10 days for a letter to go through the mail.

[Bend3r]

@atikovi

It shouldn’t take 10 days for a letter to go through the mail.

IMO that seems perfectly reasonable.

From your original post, the bank does not even say it was mailed on the 20th, but that it was issued. (Printed? File generated and sent to printing department? It’s not defined in that sentence). Say it was mailed then maybe on the 21, the next day. The 22nd was a holiday. The 23rd was Black Friday, one of the busiest days for packages. Standard mail probably didn’t move then either, maybe it didn’t even get fully into the USPS system. PO only partially operational on weekends. So the USPS might not have even got it until Monday. That makes today only 5 business days. Fully reasonable, especially considering the holidays with tons of prioritized packages moving through the system.

That’s not even considering the not common but not rare possibility of a letter individually getting lost/delayed for a much longer time. Maybe it fell off a conveyor and they found it a week later. Maybe it got chewed up in a machine.

There’s only so much that can be done to transit a letter across the US for the low sum of $0.50.

[atikovi]

First class letters should take 2-3 business days to arrive. Billpay said check should arrive around the 26th. Pretty sure they take into account the holidays. Check arrived a full week later. Not arguing about the post office, just saying what happened.

[Bend3r]

It takes an average of 1-3 business days. All I’m trying to say is that one should expect it might take longer. There’s no guaranteed delivery timeframe for first class mail.

If you send one letter a day to a random location in the us from another location in the us for 365 days, it would be extremely unlikely that they “all” arrive within 3 business days.

[atikovi]

I understand that. 4 or 5 days would be fine but 9 is unreasonable. Especially if I was sending money to pay a bill with late payment penalties.