I’m aware of one protection that is lost as soon as the cardholder pays the credit card bill in full. The one that I’m aware of is the one that appears on every credit card statement (sometimes on the back in fine print) about “Your Rights If You Are Dissatisfied With Your Credit Card Purchases” where it says “You must not yet have fully paid for the purchase.”
It has always seemed weird to me that the cardholder would lose this protection as soon as the cardholder pays the credit card bill in full. Sometimes I wonder whether I’m correctly understanding this.
I’m curious about your use of the word protections (plural). Do you know of any other protections that are lost as soon as the credit card bill is paid. They do refer to the cardholder’s “Rights” as plural, so I guess one could think of this as multiple protections (plural).
About a week ago, on this thread, I documented my sixty-three point credit score haircut because, in an Argyll’s rule violation, I was a few days late with a payment. The payment was not “late” late, but it was later than the payments I always make in accord with “the rule”. Anyway, not too much drama. Just an unwanted haircut.
Then yesterday comes a letter out of left field from American Express. It was a snail mailed letter. They politely informed me that they have cut my credit line in half, using the excuse that I was not using my card. Well, maybe that is true. Or maybe the halving of my line is also related to a lower credit score. Who can know this for certain.
Only can say that loss of credit generally is killer for my little side hustle. I need more credit, not less. And when you lose credit it also impacts your overall utilization percentage. Thank goodness it was only American Express. But if other of my credit grantors do this, I’m screwed.
That has always struck me as odd as well. For one, there doesn’t seem to be any reasoning behind it. Practically*, if you are continuously using the card and thus always have a balance, who’s to say you’ve paid off that particular purchase as opposed to paying off newer purchases? It doesn’t seem like a meaningful or practical exception and thankfully I’m unaware of any card issuers who utilize it.
*For normal card users, not nutjobs who pay the entire balance before the statement closes
This is exactly why I have $900k or so of available credit. Whether my normal monthly spend is $500 or $5000, there is effectively zero credit score fluctuation. I’ve been slowly consolidating over the last few months though. I am trying to only have cards with $40k+ limits and drop the smaller ones.
After many, many months, and in the wake of early, highly discouraging, failures, finally have launched my PenFed Power Cash Rewards Visa card (2% reward).
Right now flying low and slow; everything is experimental. This could be profitable or it could, equally easily, end up like my NFCU Flagship card’s ill-fated crash and burn. Time will tell.
But just successfully completed a small (under $1000) purchase. Earlier purchase attempts were rebuffed. So will PenFed award me points for this purchase, or will they shut me out with no points in manner akin to NFCU? Only time will tell. Fingers are crossed.
But 2% reward cards are not out there in abundance. Ya gotta try. And if at first you do not succeed, ya gotta try, try again.
Thank you for a good and helpful post. Much appreciated.
Bear in mind, though, that my “spending” is not real, conventional spending. Hence I’m not in position to take anything for granted. I go in small at first to test the water, then if all well work my way up over time to much larger “purchases”.
At this point I am hoping for the best, but am also prepared for the worst.
But, even allowing for possibility of failure, launch of a new (to me) 2% card is enjoyable. If all goes well this card could eventually grow my annual income by thousands of dollars (Shin dreams ).
Not really certain regarding loss of rewards earned but not yet paid out at Chase. Was hitting the 5% groceries thing a good bit.
These closures are too closely spaced in time to be unrelated one to the other. Suspect big money center banks have a notification system in place. Waiting for shoes to drop at Citi and at B of A.
Losses thus far are not that great looking back. But if Discover closes my account I will lose over $2000 straightaway. Hoping for best there.
You win some you lose some. The winnings were great while they lasted, and I continue to have many irons in the fire. But of course this will impact my utilization, hence my score. Guess it’s all downhill from here . . . at least for a while.
Did this all happen today? Were those new accounts?
Your report may say “closed by issuer” or something to that effect, which may have caused the second bank to close your account as a result of the first closure, but I’m not sure if issuers actually look at that, just a guess. Otherwise, it may be a fincen thing which likely doesn’t bode well for your other accounts, especially if you don’t have other relationships there.
It’s also theoretically a possibility that Barclay’s and Chase use the same warning/alert system, which is why they may have been shut down at the same time.
I certainly agree with you on this. The closures came at virtually the same time, with no warning. And it goes without saying all accounts were in good standing and paid right up to snuff, early actually. But if I’m the victim of some sort of warning system none of that will matter and I will surely lose other accounts following this holiday weekend.
All three accounts were quite old. One was my treasured Priceline account, which I’ve had since the deal went up back on FatWallet. That was a tough loss. And, yes, I discovered all three closures this morning through notices posted, visible when I logged into my accounts. Neither bank offered me any sort of email notification, though I would anticipate snail mailed notice at some point.
I am shutting down most Discover activity in hope of preserving the account long enough to collect my big rewards bonus early in July. We shall see. I had no rewards losses at Barclays, and with Chase I’m not certain what will happen when my statement closes early in June.
Running up credit close to the limit each month and paying it off before the statement date indicates that something questionable may be going on, and is a sign the credit score is being manipulated.
When is the last time you logged in, or used each account? It’s highly unlikely for two banks to both close your accounts over a holiday weekend, even if you happened to find out about them at the same time.
Didn’t you have an account cycle with a large balance recently? Or dispute something on your report?
Agreed. Yet that is exactly what happened. I log into my accounts all the time, including these three, for a variety of reasons . . including to check my credit (e.g., with Chase). These closings all happened within a very short space of time, I assure you.
Still, while Barclays and Chase had people working over the holiday weekend, I’m concerned other big banks that did not might still get around to me later this week, and close me down.
As you guys no doubt can guess on your own, my spending patterns on all of my various cards are VERY similar. After all, that’s how I make money. So if what I’m doing was trouble at Barclays and at Chase it likely will be trouble for any other bank that takes a look at my spending, an examination prompted by any sort of warning report a number to the banks might share among themselves.
Not too recently. And that was at Synchrony, not at Barclays or at Chase. The Synchrony matter was long enough ago to where it has now gone away thanks to a more recent statement closing. I’m pretty sure it was not a factor here. Also, I have not disputed anything at all.
Argyll, I appreciate your post. And of course that is exactly what I do each month. Can you provide a source for your post? It’s not clear to me why what I’m doing would be suggestive of “something questionable”, or what that something might be.
shinobi, now I understand why I haven’t heard anything lately about CD’s or Savings rates from you. You are understandably working very hard to maintain these CC accounts. Sounds like your money making CC’s on hitting a “stand still”. It’s probably just a glitch, that you will work out soon.
But my interest is in your returning to CD management. I have lot’s of $$'s sitting in Grow 2.75%. That’s ok for now, but in a couple months, several old CD accounts will mature. Opps! What to do then?
Hi, pattyb53. Good to see your post. I was concerned.
I’m still as much into CDs as ever. If I see a good deal I jump on it and post about it if I’m able. Thing is:
I’ve not seen any great deals for quite a long while. And Ken’s place . . well . . . it’s akin to a morgue over there! Dead!
I make a lot more, per dollar invested, with my CC pursuits than I do with CDs. Course that is only true when the CC issuers are not shutting me down. Looks as if my future will hold more CDs and fewer CC deals. Sad.
Trust me, if I start to spy good CD deals I will post 'em. But, again, lately no luck whatsoever.
@shinobi I know we’ve had our disagreements in the past (and still do), But I truly wish only the best for you as far as your manufactured spending (or whatever it is) goes. I hate hearing about people getting shut down that have figured out a loophole. Sadly, it’s part of the game and part of what has kept me from doing anything questionable with my accounts. But the upside has always left me curious as well. When this crazy ride eventually ends for you (I hope it doesn’t), I am interested to hear about what you were doing that got you shut down. Shut down stories are some of the most important things people can share to help everyone in the future. Here’s hoping you get your bonus from Discover.
Having a senior moment and am unable to recall those disagreements. I do appreciate your very kind post. Thanks.
I might be able to shed a ray or two of light. While I never have revealed exactly what I’m doing, there were clues along the way for persons interested. Perhaps the largest single clue came in my “Singapore rules” thread last August. Here is a link to that thread on chance you might have forgotten:
I am pretty sure my recent downfall is related to considerations/restrictions outlined in detail there, some of which might now be operative here in the USA, even if only quietly or informally so far.
Straight up those Singapore rules, were they in place here, would be the death knell for my little side hustle. It could be only my rich imagination, or maybe I’m just short sleep, but I do think I’m hearing a bell tolling way off in the distance.
Finally I want to add, for any genuine MSers (I am a phony - I am not doing conventional MSing) who might be reading this, by no means is it my thought those Singapore rules, brought here, would impact you guys. Period
Q: Shin, are you saying that even were the Singapore rules to hit the USA that conventional MSers would be fine?
Not saying that. I’m saying I do not know what impact there would be, if any, because I do not do conventional MSing and I have not studied the matter at all. I only know for certain those rules would be the absolute end for me. That is all.
Wow!! I read that “Singapore rules” list. You may be a “big time player”, but even little ole me, might be caught up. I only use my Citi Double Cash card. But, I charge everything, & some months I get a pretty nice $$ cash back check. Many of the bills I pay each month might be considered on that list, such as. Insurance bills, large chemical bills for farming, etc.
Just very interesting!!
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