Tax changes / proposals - discussion

Tax changes / proposals - discussion


And ?

You’ve merely documented that they violated the Byrd Rule.

Not to mention, you also documented the GOP’s legislative fraud. Their claim is their tax bill will not add more than $1.5 trillion of debt over ten years. Even prior to the recent massive spending bill, the CBO had already projected that each annual deficit under this administration will be well over a trillion dollars.

When it comes massive tax cuts for the Rich & Corporate, the GOP did what they always do in regards to massive tax cuts for the Rich & Corporate. THEY LIED. They lied to the CBO. They lied to the Senate parliamentarian. They lied to the American people.


It means your assertion in regards to the payroll tax was irrelevant, as it was not part of the tax package within the stimulus legislation.




How revealing.


Putting aside the non-relevancy, the federal income tax is merely one tax, and for many not the largest tax they pay, thereby making the comparative assertions within your post utterly meaningless.


Well, if the payroll tax wasn’t the Obama tax cut you were talking about, what tax cut did they pass that was much larger than the GOP just passed? I can’t remember one.


This is what I was telling you. All of this is irrelevant to the point you were trying to make. In my post to you, which you are quoting, my first sentence is:

No one here knows what stimulus legislation you’re referring to. The reason we’re all wrong in our interpretations, is because we’re guessing at whatever legislation you may be referring to, because you refuse to say.

The thread is about the tax reform, xerty’s post is relevant to that point. The fact that it’s not relevant to your ramblings doesn’t mean its not relevant in this thread.

This is false. The comparisons are not utterly meaningless. I agree that you need to take into account other taxes (see my post above), but it doesn’t make comparisons of one meaningless, they just need to be qualified. No statistic is going to be perfect; that’s why they’re qualified with known and potentially unknown errors and biases.




It would undoubtedly increase voter turn out across the board. Probably a bit more impact at the poor and working class.

We have vote by mail and automatic registration here in Oregon and our voter turn out is among the highest in the nation even though our demographics are poorer and younger.


The polls are open for like 14 hours here. And there are also absentee ballots by mail, so I don’t know what the issue is…


No it isn’t.

You yourself documented that your claim that the only reason the Middle-class tax cuts were temporary was the Byrd Rule was not the case.

You yourself documented that your claim that the only reason the Middle-class tax cuts were temporary was to be able to utilize reconciliation was not the case. Remember, the Middle-class temporary tax cuts comprised less than 10% of the total cost of the tax bill, with more than 90% permanent for the Rich & Corporate. They already lied about trillions upon trillions, what would a tiny bit more possibly matter ?

And why the hell not ? There was only one stimulus bill during the Obama terms. I’ve repeatedly posted the tax package within the stimulus bill. Is that too complicated ?

Eh, his post included “you”, so I assume it was addressed to me. Except I wasn’t posting about the progressivity or non-progressivity of the tax framework. Hence it was indeed irrelevant.

Which he failed to do, thereby resulting in meaningless comparative assertions in regards to a subset of taxpayers.


So lemme get this straight.

First, in regards to “tax cuts”, you previously claimed that “people didn’t feel them as much as you claim”, and that they “only lasted a few years”, and now you’re agreeing with a post claiming you don’t even know what legislation I was referring to.

Good grief.

In your ideological zeal to knee-jerk disagree with anything I post, you’re making a fool of yourself.


The tax package as part of the stimulus bill. Reductions in withholding. Payments to SS, SSI, and veterans pensions. Expanded child tax credits. Increased subsidization of COBRA and Medicaid. Numerous tax breaks for Small Business, which are overwhelmingly Middle-class. Just to mention the highlights.

Not paying attention, Eh ?


Like I specifically pointed out before, the two largest tax cuts under Obama were TEMPORARY: the making work pay credit and the 2% payroll reduction. They expired after a few years. One of your MAIN COMPLAINTS about the Trump tax cuts from the beginning has been that they will expire in a few years.

Feel free to complain about the expiration of the GOP’s tax cuts in one post and then dismiss the expiration of the Democrat’s tax cuts in another post. I just want to point out that It just makes you look like a partisan hack that isn’t approaching the discussion honestly.

As for your claim that Obama’s cuts for the middle class were larger than Trumps, I’d like to see some evidence. If Obama’s $288 billion went 100% to the middle class (which it didn’t because rich people got a payroll tax decrease too but for simplicity’s sake I’ll say it did), then over 80% of Trumps $1.5 trillion would have to go rich people and businesses to make Obama’s larger for the middle class. That very well could be the case, but I haven’t seen the numbers saying that is the case. I’m not claiming that Trump’s was larger than Obama’s, but you’re claiming the opposite. Feel free to show how you came to that conclusion.


And LOL at claiming that the guy that signed Obamacare cut taxes on small businesses. You’re being quite selective of the overall tax law changes during the Obama administration when you say that.


In about half the states the polls close at 7PM. It can be a bit difficult if everyone gets off work and then goes the the polls at 5-7pm and you all end up standing in line for 2 hours because all the working stiffs are trying to vote in the same 2 hour window. That was the situation for my wife in her previous state of residence.

True you can generally get around that with an absentee ballot but that likely doesn’ toccur to most and you have to plan ahead. Not that it can’t be done but I see no reason to make things difficult.

Vote by mail is easy cheap efficient and works well in OR for many years now. Not sure why everyone else hasn’t implemented it…


And were not part of the stimulus bill.

He shoots, and misses. Again.


Just the highlights:

~ Increased the small business deduction for machinery and equipment to $240,000

~ Cut capital gains taxes for small business investors who hold their stock for more than five years

~ Added tax credits for small businesses that hire long-term unemployed veterans or students

~ Increased the SBA loan guarantee to 90% in the 7(a) loan program

~ Eliminated the fees on 504 economic development loans

~ Increased the SBA loan limits from $3 million to $5 million

You’re blinded by your ideological crutch.


Half true. The (temporary) Making Work Pay Tax Credit was part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. The (temporary) payroll tax cut was part of the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010.

But you conflated them and that’s why I referred to both of them. Note you wrote:

You said “Reductions in withholding.” Then when I point out that it was temporary, just like Trump’s cuts, you say it was “not part of the stimulus bill.” So we are either talking about all of his cuts or only his stimulus cuts. Don’t be surprised when I point out his cuts that weren’t part of the stimulus were also temporary when you point them out as cuts.


No, you are the one that is blinded. It is disingenuous to list the tax cuts without listing the tax increases. Would you like me to list the increases or can you just admit that there were significant tax increases implemented with the passage of Obamacare?