The 2020 USA POTUS election politics, the civil war, and the world war (Part 1)

This is a false statement. Treaties must go through Congress for approval. The executive branch is not designated to decide and set these in the constitution. Just like Congress must declare war and is in charge of deciding which military conflicts are participated in
The executive branch is there to implement congressional legislation (‘leading’ can refer to this) and handle fast- moving day-to-day issues, it is not a branch above the rest of the government. The US does not have a King. The constitution puts what you refer to in most cases under Congress, not the executive branch.

Congress has passed legislation that delegates some of these functions (in addition to any emergency powers specified in the constitution) , allowing the executive branch the ability to temporarily implement new policies in many areas in case of an emergency, where Congress would have no time to address or act on the issue in an expedient manner. And for most of those, it’s required for Congress to either ratify or fail to object to the actions afterwards or they are unwound (such as new military conflicts). The tariffs, reallocation of funds for fencing, and some of the immigration related issues all fall under this category.

Well… of course one may point out that “emergency” can be subjective, and there’s not a “check” in the system to prevent a rogue executive from just repeatedly declaring everything an emergency and then deciding to directly overrturn things expressly addressed by Congress in recent legislation and work directly against Congress. But there is actually an explicit “check” in the system if Congress doesn’t like the demeanor of the executive…

I dont know how any of that is even relevant?

Sure, the Senate needs to ratify any treaty. But the President is charged with negotiating one and presenting it for ratification. And the Senate confirms a number of State Department officials, but those officials are appointed by the President and are they are the ones who develop foreign policy.

And no, there is no “check” in the system if Congress decides they dont like the President’s demeanor.

This is disingenuous. This wasn’t a traditional vote of funding or not funding something. It was a vote AGAINST taking $3.6 billion from military construction projects in their states that are already appropriated and spending that money instead on the wall. It’s fair to be upset with people that voted that way, but at least be honest about why they voted that way.

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Yeah, I didn’t think of that. No wonder they are squawking so loudly. And God knows they don’t give a damn about the majority that wants an end to open borders. Screw 'em! Republican elites are every bit as bad as all the others. And the spineless Republicans are so much more cowardly. My heart bleeds for such people.

“Sad” related news:

https://www.lockportjournal.com/news/local_news/collins-defends-trump/article_4a2256b0-b1f6-55d8-ad24-140fe18fb6f9.html

Collins was the first member of Congress to back President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign. Collins’ district voted more solidly for Trump than any other district in New York.”

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What you’ve stated here is so ridiculous it doesnt even count as an over-embellishment or loose interpretation of what was actually said. The implications are simply made up.

What was actually said? “If the Democrats are successful in removing the President from office (which they will never be), it will cause a Civil War like fracture in this Nation from which our Country will never heal”. It quite obviously is not a threat, it’s a prediction. Frankly, I agree. A successful impeachment will be the beginning of the end of the USA as we know it. It would take a very special leader to pull everyone back together, and I dont think he exists right now.

However, a bunch of government employees are threatening, and have now taken actual steps beyond mere threats, to overthrow the government because they havent gotten their own way. Trump is a sideshow of his own making. But these people have put him in the center ring, headlining the circus, as a means of getting him laughed out of the building so they can go back to doing whatever they want without the risk of losing another election.

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House should be starting an impeachment inquiry on President Crooked Hillary and President Hussein Obama now! Instead of picking on poor businessman Trump while he’s trying to … err… “help” the country!

Edit: :frowning: couldn’t find a link to the recent poll that included “Should Congress start impeachment proceedings on Hillary Clinton?” Results were funny.

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I’m giving this a “mostly false.” You are implying that he stopped or slowed down the government from sucking money, but government spending has not decreased. He’s the monkey wrench in the gears of many other government functions, but not the money sucking or spending.

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That is not what I said. I said the implications are made up. I then quoted the actual tweet, which in fact says nothing remotely close to how it’s been characterized.

This says it all. He isnt doing what you want him to do or acting how you want him to act, so he needs to go. I agree he’s a buffoon, but he’s the buffoon who was in fact elected whether you like it or not.

Trump is the only one who cant overthrow Trump.

I asked you above, in what ways has Trump “so thoroughly violated the Constitution and law”?

Yes, and when I tell you that if you go wandering through the ghetto in the middle of the night, you’re likely to get mugged, I’m obviously threatening to mug you, right? How could I dare make such a threat to you, I clearly should be arrested! Laws broken! Treason! Good grief. And yet you accuse me of being unreasonable?

“Will cause a Civil War like fracture in this nation”. Anyone remotely familiar with history knows that the Civil War drove a deep and lasting wedge between Americans. That is what a “Civil War like fracture” is, not loading up our muskets to storm Capital Hill. Sadly, what was said and how it’s being spun somehow makes Trump look like the intelligent one in all this. And I really never would’ve thought that was possible.

An interesting aspect of the current, ongoing, impeachment folly is this:

In the most recent three examples of impeachment, Andrew Johnson, Nixon, and Clinton, the process was begun with a formal vote in the House, which vote was regarding whether or not to commence the impeachment inquiry. This seems reasonable and sensible, especially for something so momentous regardless which side you might be on. The House voted and the impeachment process went forward, or not, in accord with the outcome of that vote. In the three instances I mentioned it went forward.

NOT THIS TIME!

This time there has been no vote of the full House. Nothing. This time the process is going forward absent any vote whatsoever, breaking with past precedent. Thoughtful people will ask themselves why this is. Fake impeachment is what it is, phony charges concocted by rabid partisans and their media handmaidens. But why?

It is known in advance President Trump will not be removed from office. But removal is not the purpose of this exercise. The rationale here is same as it was with the phony Mueller probe, which in the end yielded nothing. The goal is to harass and hamstring President Trump, to tie him up with BS, making it more difficult for him to implement his policies and programs, the ones people voted for back in 2016.

And sadly, both with that Mueller circus and with impeachment now, the goal was and is being achieved. Democrats are superb politicians who know how to get their way, one way or another. They are also consummate liars.

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Agreed. But he did not accomplish that outcome all alone. He has had a huge assist from Democrats unwilling to respect the outcome of the 2016 election and resisting that outcome by any and all means at their disposal, especially illegal and underhanded ones.

It’s OK, 2016 was 3 years ago. You can stop crying about crooked Hilllary and mean Obama already. This is 2019.

Republicans split with Trump on celebrating China
“Congratulations to President Xi and the Chinese people on the 70th Anniversary of the People’s Republic of China!”
Instead, you should be very happy today rather than still stuck in the past of 2016. 70 years for the upstanding PRC! What an accomplishment! A day to celebrate with our great friend, “great leader” Xi!

Out with the traitorous senate republicans for not also congratulating him ! RINOs!

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Trump has been in office less than three years. His term lasts for four years.

He is POTUS and you hate it and are unable to cope. You’re going to need life support when he is reelected next year by a wide margin. In places in America you do not live or understand, people are seething. I know. I am there.

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I understand the topic here is one which invokes great controversy. It really is a civil war in America today. There are many people on both sides of the issues and there is no agreement or meeting of the minds. The level of disagreement is very high.

As OP I welcome expression of opinion by folks on both sides of these issues. That is why I opened the thread in the first place. I have my own strong views as do other posters here. This is a place to express those views regardless which side of the conflict you occupy.

I read many posts here with which I vehemently disagree. But I want those contributors to continue posting. Their posts are valuable regardless how much I don’t like them. Short of someone using bad language or the like, I would never dream of flagging another person’s post simply because I do not like the ideas and concepts being put forward. That is not the American way, and it is in fact precisely contrary to traditional American values where all voices are welcomed and heard. I hope other posters here will respect that standard as well. Thanks.

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In places in America you do not live or understand, people have been seething since before the 2016 election.

What you seem to completely forget while making your points are the wishes of the majority of voters. He did not win the majority. And I have a feeling that nobody that voted against him in 2016 has changed their mind, while many who voted for him have regretted it. Much like the misinformed / lied-to pro-BREXIT voters in the UK who learned the truth and regretted their choice (at least in that case it actually was a majority).

While I won’t be needing life support if the abominable smallfoot remains in office and wins another term (he has numbed society with his stupidity and corruption, and Congress piled on by not holding him accountable), you too should be prepared for the opposite scenarios. There won’t be a “civil war” – as long as people are employed and there’s no recession, most people are too lazy and comfortable to get off the couch. And if any crazies are crazy enough to do something, they’ll all get round up and locked up, as they should.

I was secretly hoping for some nuts-os to get shot up near Area 51 recently. I don’t normally have ill will towards anyone, but oh man do we have a lot of stupid people in this country.

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Previous times, the alleged crimes were known and the inquiry was to determine if removal from office was appropriate. This time, the inquiry is to try to uncover an actual crime; at this point there are no charges to present for a vote. A vote now would ask little more than “do you like him or not”, and everyone involved is smart enough to know that would never fly as the basis for removal from office. They are hoping to find a clear smoking gun, at which point the impeachment proceedings will proceed at a record pace. But until then, they’re happy with the lingering cloud their inaction creates.

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Wait a minute - so they’re chastising the Chinese over unfair tariffs among other things, immediately after having crucified Trump for standing up against Chinese tariffs? Huh?

I find it much more palatable to hold firm on the stuff that matters while indulging their desired pageantry, than attack the pageantry while caving to them on the stuff that matters…

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You are in error . . . understandably. I have the advantage over you in this regard. It might be unfair, but I have the advantage of a daily barrage of misinformation from an overwhelmingly liberal American mainstream media, which assists me in learning your views. Liberals today control our media (95% liberal), academia, and a large portion of government . . especially those more than willing to share their liberal thinking and positions. If I wanted to I would find it difficult to escape the daily fusillade of liberal views which today permeate our country. The thinking you share is everywhere.

You have no such advantage when it comes to learning about the other side. Conservative views are available to those who seek them out on the radio. Fox News is today much more liberal than it was years ago as control has passed to a new generation. But Fox opinion, in the evening, still offers a very conservative slant, so our views are available to you there. And of course conservative opinion and views can be found here on the internet. But there is nothing whatsoever on the conservative side which, taken together, can equal ABC plus NBC plus CBS plus PBS plus NPR, plus the NY Times and the WAPO . . . all overwhelmingly liberal in their viewpoints.

So I do have an advantage. It is much easier today in America to access liberal views than conservative ones. We are, in fact, saturated with liberal, globalist, screeds.

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So what? From day one in America the rules have not changed. You do not win presidential elections by capturing a majority of the popular votes. We are the United States of America. Those rules came about at the beginning owing to a compromise among all the states which put into place the electoral college. To become POTUS one must win in the electoral college. Nothing else matters. Period.

If you do not like that original compromise, people on your side should seek to amend The Constitution of the United States of America. It can be done. But until you do succeed in changing the rules, please shut up about your having lost big time under the existing rules. The term “poor loser” comes to mind for such folks . . . or maybe just “loser” would suffice.

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