The routing and account number have to be used in some fashion in order to make a payment. When electronic payments are made, the computers communicate it back and forth. The numbers are not immediately available to anyone looking at the receiving account, but they are definitely used to make the transaction, as you cannot make a payment from your account otherwise. Whether the numbers are stored or how long the information is kept in the system varies with the institution.
Interesting. I wonder if this is required by AML laws or something? It would seem to me to be possible to set it up where that wouldn’t happen, e.g., similar to how it would work if you sent a cashier’s check.
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This is true beyond any doubt.
But when paying BBVA from Alliant, it is the BBVA account number receiving the payment which must be included with the payment mailing. Alliant probably also includes my name and quite likely my address as well. But there is no need for Alliant to provide to BBVA my Alliant account number. I would be quite surprised if they do that. BBVA has no use for my Alliant account number, just my BBVA account number and my payment in check form.
Anyway, regardless that the above is common sense, I just telephoned Alliant and inquired. The question went up to a supervisor. Here is the answer I received:
When using Alliant bill payer service, and when the payment goes out via snail mail, your Alliant account number is not included as part of that mailing.
Ok. They told me something different.
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Thanks, Argyll. I wish this were a surprise, but it is not. I’d really like to know what Alliant actually is doing. I also wish reps would stop guessing and making stuff up when answering questions.
My rep did ask a supervisor. But who knows if the supervisor really was an authoritative source or was him/herself just guessing.
Annoying
I called again. This time they said the account number is not seen by the receiving party when you use Billpay, so congratulations…I think.
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It’s still very likely a “source” account is included in the transfer record. But with most banks’ billpay service, money is transferred from your account into the bank’s generic billpay account (or a unique alternate account number set up for each payer), and the payment is actually sent from that account. Just like a paper billpay check has that alternate account info on it, it’d make sense that an ACH payment would include the same alternate account as the source, too.
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That’s just the difference between “pushing” and “pulling”. Of course you have to give the info for whatever account you are pushing to or pulling from, but the other half of the transaction is already loaded in the system you’re using to make the request.
Note - when using CIT Bank to pull money out of Wells Fargo, the withdrawal transaction at Wells Fargo includes my CIT account info in the transaction details. I never gave Wells Fargo this info, it was conveyed as part of the ACH transfer requested with CIT. Same with using Alliant, although it looks like a derivative of the account number, maybe a master membership number.
I think we were discussing online billpay in particular.
According to the article: “By using online bill pay, you don’t need to give your routing number and account number to anyone. Your financial institution will be the one initiating the transaction and will not disclose your account number, so you never need to put your personal information at risk.”
The billpay services may do this to implement a “positive pay” type system in which any debit memo (check) written against the account is kept in a ledger that is automatically checked (verified/reconciled) anytime a debit is posted against the account. If no match is found the entry is automatically rejected and sent back to the institution that posted the entry for verification. This is the banks attempt to weed out fraudulent items. It is an EXCELLENT reason to use bill pay versus your own checks.
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I have a target balance in my banking hub whereas to minimize risk to my cash. I move money in an out of this hub account with accounts that are not “at risk” by way of debit card, atm, debit memos etc. I treat this hub account as “insecure.”
Right But if source account info is transmitted with an ACH “push” transfer, it stands to reason that an electronic billpay ACH (in other words, “all ACH transfers”) will also include source account info. The source account for a billpay may be the generic account the bank uses to pay all billpay checks, not your own individual account info, but the payment most likely includes some kind of source account info.
Are they doing maintenance on the site this evening? I am unable to log in nor reset my password (doesn’t recognize my userid), but there’s no mention of an outage on the log in page.
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Same here. Pretty appalling that there’s no indication of any kind.
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Yep, it’s not working. I’ve ran into this before at night on weekends.
Common enough to know it’s them and not me having a problem.
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Agreed. Gave them a ring a bit ago just to make sure, and the phone system appeared down, as well.
Tried 0 for a representative, got “System is unavailable, please try again at a later time”
Am at some pain to be reporting this news; had hoped for a better outcome:
Alliant appears not to have increased our savings account interest rate. This despite the 0.25% Fed increase in March, and despite widespread (albeit small) increases elsewhere.
I was not looking for or expecting 0.25%. But I also was hoping for something greater than zero.
Caveat:
I’m pretty certain what I’m seeing this morning is “it”. But this is Easter. So there is a very small chance something will come through and show up tomorrow.
ETA
It appears the early bird does not always get the worm. I was too early when I posted the above earlier this morning. Dunno what took 'em so long, but . . .
Alliant did increase the savings rate by five basis points after I wrote the above. Guess that is their Easter gift to us.
Good to hear…I am keeping most of my money with CIT BANK now getting 1.75% apy but i do keep some at Alliant…
By the way, although you wouldn’t like the 5 day hold on funds coming into CIT using their system, i think you would like their limits: TWO MILLION DOLLARS A DAY…IN GOING OR OUTGOING…NO MONTHLY MAX and ONE DAY TRANSFERS in or out…
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So, the king of switcheroo has moved on to another bank. March 1 you were at ebanc after switching from Ally, AMEX Savings, Bank of America, Incredible Bank, Purepoint, and I presume Alliant.
Now you’re at CIT bank.
I think you’ve already set the record for most bank switching in a year. You can rest now or maybe take a walk in the park instead of searching for new banks.
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LOL, Argyll 
Actually, i got thrown out of ebanc…I really wanted to stay but got tossed out!..Apparently moving in a LOT of cash quickly spooked them and they shut down my accounts…weird bank, i must say…never encountered one that complained about getting too much money…LOL
So, found a new home with CIT…which actually does stay pretty competitive when it comes to rate increases…
The new line up is: CIT BANK (most of my $) ALLIANT CU (the rest) and CITIBANK for my local…Hoping to now stay with this set-up as i really like it a lot…and a walk in the park doesn’t sound like a bad idea…