Seeking CC help/suggestions - Specific conditions

[shinobi]

@pattyb53

Many of the bills I pay each month might be considered on that list, such as. Insurance bills, large chemical bills for farming, etc.

Your Citi DoubleCash card is a good rewards card. I have the same card . . . or at least I still did when I checked earlier today.

Most rewards cards specifically deny rewards for purchases which are cash equivalents or which readily can be converted to cash. Those latter, of course, are the lifeblood of any form of MS (manufactured spending).

The difficulty, for CC issuers, comes in attempting to identify which charges to your card might fall into forbidden territory. Specifically, when the issuers seek to use MCCs (merchant category codes) to accomplish such identification, trouble can easily ensue. This is because some MCCs can apply to both allowed and forbidden purchases. And this validates your point, pattyb53. To wit:

While your purchases are legit, they easily might carry MCCs which apply as well to disallowed items.

This leaves the CC issuers in a dilemma. Do they pay rewards on whatever MCC, despite knowing they might be paying on a cash equivalent? Or do they disallow all purchases carrying whatever MCC, knowing they might be denying rewards for purchases which are legit and should be rewarded?

The Singapore rules suggest a possible trend toward the latter approach. When I was denied rewards by NFCU (see up thread) I’m virtually certain it was based on their proprietary use of MCCs, a more stringent approach than other CC issuers back at that time. For you see:

There is absolutely nothing I can do to control the MCC that is assigned to my “purchases”. It’s completely outside my control. And, yes, the MCC for my “purchases” is on that Singapore list. So to the extent that list might be taken up and adopted by CC issuers here, I am instantaneously a dead duck. And there would be nothing whatsoever I could do about it.

[Argyll]

@shinobi

There is absolutely nothing I can do to control the MCC that is assigned to my “purchases”.

Yup, I can’t control the amount of rewards on my purchases, nor the APR, annual fees, or required payments. Geeze, what a world!

[shinobi]

@Argyll

Yup, I can’t control the amount of rewards on my purchases, nor the APR, annual fees, or required payments.

Argyll, I respectfully disagree. Actually you can control the items you mentioned. They all are properties of the CC you choose to make the purchase. Choose a different card and they all can change.

But its MCC is a property of whatever it is one is purchasing. And that MCC is assigned by the CC industry and is therefore outside the control of the purchaser/cardholder. Choose a different card to buy whatever, it will still nevertheless carry the same MCC.

And if that MCC happens to appear on a list of MCCs for which no rewards are paid, then you get no reward . . . regardless the CC you use to make the purchase.

[shinobi]

@Argyll

Why would you it even cross your mind that you should be the one determining MCCs?

Argyll you have incorrectly interpreted what I wrote earlier. I said I have no control over MCC assignment. I never said I thought I should have such control. Nor would I ever think such a thing.

[Argyll]

It seemed like you were lamenting not controlling MCCs.

One might as well post: “I have no control over the weather.”

[meed18]

@shinobi

I might be able to shed a ray or two of light. While I never have revealed exactly what I’m doing, there were clues along the way for persons interested. Perhaps the largest single clue came in my “Singapore rules” thread last August. Here is a link to that thread on chance you might have forgotten:

Link

My guess is you are a stamp reseller! Or maybe you’ve got a bail bond hustle. lol j/k
For your sake, I hope I don’t hear what you are actually doing anytime soon.

[glitch99]

@shinobi

But its MCC is a property of whatever it is one is purchasing.

No- it’s a property of where you are buying it from, not what you are buying. I buy take-out chicken, tires, a new pair of jeans, a freezer, a visa gift card, and fill my prescription at my local Walmart, and the transactions are all merely “grocery store” purchases on my credit card.

@shinobi

And if that MCC happens to appear on a list of MCCs for which no rewards are paid, then you get no reward . . . regardless the CC you use to make the purchase.

Each card issuer has full discretion over the MCCs that qualify for rewards and bonus rewards from their reward program. That “list” is proprietary to each issuer, so it is affected by the credit card you use. And the list can drill deeper so that individual merchant qualify for different reward tiers, despite having the same MCC.

[shinobi]

Well I can only say that, regardless what card I use, or where I go “shopping”, the thing I am “buying” always has the same MCC.

And that same MCC appears on the Singapore list. Sadly.

[scripta]

Step 1: He’s found a truck stop parking lot near a race track / casino.
Step 2: …
Step 3: Profit!

[shinobi]

Ho boy, here we go. And I have Experian to thank for giving me the heads up:

Experian is now showing the three account closures and an (unrelated) credit line halving at AMEX. The closures indicate accounts were closed by grantor but do not state a reason. Date on this stuff is June sixth, despite it all having gone down two weeks ago.

Thng is, my other credit grantors now (finally) have this information, which is concerning. I have shut down my side hustle completely since being nailed by Chase and Barclays. But May was already a decent month for me, with lots of very large charges prior to the closures. God knows the rewards are rolling in right now, likely for the last time at least with this much money.

Experian is telling me my credit score is as high as ever, so no worries if examination by my remaining credit grantors is merely cursory. But no way can I withstand even a rudimentary “anal exam” of my charges by a human being well trained in the art of detection.

Discover remains my principal concern, with significant dough on the line. I have been padding out my Discover card with as many legitimate charges as I’m able to muster, pushing last month’s hustle activity further down in the stack. But really all I can do is hope for the best and be well prepared for additional account closures.

It was a great money maker while it lasted, but trees do not grow to the sky. If I’m lucky and come through without additional damage, holding on to my cards, I will resume hustle activity in a month or two on a FAR, FAR smaller scale.

For anyone interested, I received “the letter” from both Chase and from Barclays. Chase said:

After careful consideration, we closed your credit card account on XXXXXXX because of rewards misuse on your account.

In addition, Chase provided that same message to me in Spanish, just in case i guess.

Mr. Barclay put it differently:

We have recently conducted a review of our accounts. Following this review, we regret to advise you that we are unable to maintain an account with you for the following reason:

Your history of account usage

A consumer credit-reporting agency was not used in making this determination.

So there you have it. I was a bad boy and they got me. I just hope nobody else does, now that word finally is getting out.

ETA

BTW, to Chase’s everlasting credit they paid me every dime of my rewards, even following closure of my account. So kudos to Chase. At Barclays the rewards were all cashed in before they shut me down, so no losses there, either.

[pattyb53]

@shinobi

So there you have it. I was a bad boy and they got me. I just hope nobody else does, now that word finally is getting out.

shinobi, I don’t what kind of racket you have (had) going but it’s Very Interesting to hear about. At least you admit it!!!

My Citi Double Cash card is ready to pay out if I’m ready $499 cash check. I always wait for $500+ to get a payout. My CDC card is all I have going, but I love getting that free money.

[glitch99]

@pattyb53

My Citi Double Cash card is ready to pay out if I’m ready $499 cash check. I always wait for $500+ to get a payout.

All cashback is forfeited with Citi, if the account is closed for any reason. There is zero benefit to letting it accumulate beyond what’s required, all it adds is risk. Redeem early, redeem often.

[pattyb53]

@glitch99

All cashback is forfeited with Citi, if the account is closed for any reason.

I can’t imagine any reason my account would be closed. I’ve been around for a goodly amount of years & never had an account closed without my wishing to close the account. But thanks for the thought.

[shinobi]

I want to redouble what glitch99 wrote about NOT allowing rewards to accumulate. In my research I have come across countless instances where account holders were wiped out. Glitch99 is right and is spot on. It is an astonishingly bad idea to allow rewards to accumulate.

I grab (i.e., take possession of) my rewards within only a few hours of them being made available. Any other course of action, straight up, is foolhardy.

As for Citi . . they rewarded me handsomely for May . . and the money is already in my bank account . . not at Citi. Just hope it’s not the last time they pay me.

[shinobi]

@pattyb53

At least you admit it!!!

Sure why not. I made a killing for a year and now I’m getting killed. Life is like that. Sometimes you get the bear. Other times the bear gets you. It’s all part of the game. If you do not play you never will win. I have no complaints and I’m learning . . . just more slowly than I wish were the case.

[pattyb53]

@shinobi

In my research I have come across countless instances where account holders were wiped out. Glitch99 is right and is spot on. It is an astonishingly bad idea to allow rewards to accumulate.

Ok, you guys convinced me!! I always like a nice $500+ check to cash out… Since Citi DC owes me $499+ I’m going to request my check today…

[shinobi]

@pattyb53

I’m going to request my check today

Smart. Bird in your hand . . . . . . . . . . . better than in Citi’s hand.

[StatGren]

I concur with all the advice to redeem rewards as quickly as possible.

The only exception I can think of is this scenario where all these things are true:

1. You have outstanding charges not yet posted or not yet yielding their points until billing cycle ends
2. There is a minimum required number of points to redeem (e.g. Fidelity/Elan is $50 in rewards minimum).
3. This is a card you intend to move to back of the wallet/sock drawer soon

In that case, leave enough points so that your outstanding charges will exceed the minimum. Cash out the rest.

[glitch99]

@pattyb53

I can’t imagine any reason my account would be closed. I’ve been around for a goodly amount of years & never had an account closed without my wishing to close the account. But thanks for the thought

Just sayin’, there’s absolutely nothing to gain from letting it sit there unredeemed. Even if you consider the risk of loss to be negligible, the best-case outcome is you’re giving Citi an interest-free loan.

If there is tiered redemptions and you can get more value from a larger redemption, then sure. But that’s not the case for the Double Cash card.

[SpeedingLunatic]

That Barclay letter is likely illegal. You can pick up a bonus on the way out.