Seeking CC help/suggestions - Specific conditions

Finance
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Well, it figures that after my last post, the letter came today. Yes, it seems they are being ridiculous. Exact reasons they list for cutting our credit line:

  • Account opening date (Sorry, I can’t go back in time to apply for the card sooner.)
  • Lack of qualifying deposit relationship with Huntington (This is the only factor I consider legit.)
  • Lack of recent installment loan information (We have a car loan outstanding since 2017, plus we applied for another car loan the weekend before they cut our credit line.)
  • Time since most recent account opening is too short (The Huntington credit card is the most recent account opening.)

Your Credit Score: 810
Date: 4/15/2019 (Um, really, using info that’s about 2 months old?)
Scores range from a low of 350 to a high of 860

Key factors that adversely affected your credit score: (I don’t consider my credit score to be adversely affected at all. :laughing:)

  • Lack of recent installment loan information (See above.)
  • Time since most recent account opening is too short (See above.)
  • Too many accounts with balances (According to Equifax, I’m using 2% of my available credit on 8 open accounts. Only a few get used regularly every month.)
  • Too many inquiries last 12 months (The only hard inquiry on my report in the last 12 months is from Huntington.)

They used Equifax. I used data from that report at Credit Karma to refute their claims when I called Huntington today. My goal was to tell them that their credit department wasn’t interpreting the data from Equifax in a way that makes sense. A couple of their criteria actually only involved my applying for THEIR credit card.

The rep said that they’re a low to medium risk bank and won’t take on customers who they feel are high risk. I said that the letter says I had a score of 810 two months ago. It was probably around that when I applied. I’ve paid my balance in full every month. How is that high risk? Of course, it’s like talking to a wall. She said there was no one to transfer me to who had the authority to look into what I called the utter lack of logic they’re using to lower many people’s credit scores. She would pass on my feedback though.

The truth is that someone decided that they were giving out too high of credit limits and instead of grandfathering current customers, THEY went back in time and made it retroactive. I hope they lose business over this. After I cool down, I’ll seriously consider whether I want to keep this card.

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Thanks for the update! And the commentary!

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Whether it is the cutting of credit lines, limitations on legitimate funds movements, restrictions on opening of accounts . . . . or something else akin . . . . we are at the point where the scammers and fraudsters are pretty much dictating the terms of the financial lives of honest people who abide by the rules and always have. The financial institutions, often as not, choose to play very safe. As a result more and more often, upright, decent people are netted, inconvenienced, and financially harmed right along with the crooks. And if we get even so much as a “sorry for the inconvenience” we are lucky.

I am tired of this BS. It takes much of the fun out of being creative with your financial management. This is because the financial institutions, when confronted with anything in the least innovative, assume fraud first before considering any other possibilities whatsoever. Sometimes I’d like to scream at them: I’m not a drug dealer!! But that would probably only result in them believing even more fervently that I am . . . or worse. Enough of this insanity. I have had enough.

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Haha

Bank: “We think you’re a criminal, and we don’t like competition.”

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Your entire post is golden. I’m particularly quoting the above because, although I don’t participate in many of the innovative financial things I’ve learned about through FWF, I did learn some things there that I adopted. Something as simple as taking advantage of quarterly rotating categories via Discover, Chase Freedom VISA, or taking advantage of store specific credit cards that offer 5% cash discount right at the register.

Home Depot, one of the least useful CCs IMO, gives 10% off at times with a coupon (with an expiration date) if you put the purchase on a Home Depot CC. So, I finally got that one within the last few years. Saved 10% on a gallon of paint recently, plus a $10 rebate on same. Not life changing, by any means, but it feels like a small victory.

Point being, even though my utilization is a mere 2%, which I’d thought was supposed to be good, I suppose having so many credit lines available could make it seem as though I haven’t got a pot to piss in, as my late grandmother would have said. :grin:

My recent experiences with financing cars instead of paying cash (another FWF play) has convinced me that the finance managers assume you can’t afford to buy the car otherwise. When they try to sell you the extended warranties, they stress how little it adds to the monthly payments. That is true. It throws them to ask how much in total, absolute dollars. Not that we buy it anyway. :laughing:

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I think the typical “finance manager” is just an experienced salesperson or sales manager. I don’t ever get the impression that they know much about finance. Maybe this varies…

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I’m actually impressed they cited such specific reasons. Even if you can argue that they really dont make any sense. Typically, they’re as vague and non-specific as possible, to only convey that “we’re allowed to do it, so we did it”.

You cant put much stock in the whole “factors adversely affecting your credit score”. No matter how high your score is, they’re required to give reasons why it isnt higher. The reasons given to you may only have the effect of a rounding error, but it’s still a negative effect.

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Financing the car provides a kickback to the dealer from the lender. Warranties add commissions paid to the dealer. Talking in absolute dollars limits the dealer’s profit to the margin on the car itself. Plus, people are much more adept to signing things when only small dollar amounts are discussed. $400/month is only $400, while spending $30,000 is a much more serious decision.

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Pleased to be able to report a happy outcome this morning:

Discover paid off with their one year match. One or two other contributors here said they would. And they did. Collected just a bit less than $2500, a nice payday. So kudos to Discover and thumbs up. They kept their word and honored their promise.

It was a long wait, culmination of a year’s worth of hustle charges. Not really certain where things will go from here. Discover remains a good card, even with only a 1.5% reward, and I don’t want to mess things up like I did with Chase and Barclays. Hence will be treading much more lightly with Discover. Am already doing so with my other remaining cards as well. Forget a million $/year (actually it was closer to $1.5M). That is rear view mirror stuff now, history, no longer in the cards. Going forward I’ll be fortunate to do half a million/year. Oh, well. It was fun while it lasted, and today’s $2.5k is a nice memento.

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No update here for nearly two months. It’s time:

Things are REALLY slow. Several matters have conspired against my little side hustle, not alone having been shut down unceremoniously by a couple of CC issuers. There is, first, the issue of money:

You need free cash to invest in short CDs. Back when I had hope of rising interest rates this was no issue. I had free cash held aside in anticipation of higher rates being in my future. Well, that proved wrong. So then I dumped most of my free cash into real CDs, longer term stuff. There went a lot of my hustle money.

But even before all that things were not great. It was becoming a scene from “How the Mighty Have Fallen”. Solidly on pace at one time of $1.5M/year, my “spending” now is coming in at a rate well below half a million, and falling. I’m having to re-balance and re-think a lot of stuff. In the instance of one account this month just finished I had to abandon Argyll’s Rule and leave a balance of five grand, which I won’t be able to pay off for a couple of weeks. I no longer have any problems whatsoever with Alliant bill pay’s $30k daily limit, which used to drive me nuts. Simply am not spending all that much.

Q: Shin big tale of woe. Have you given up?

I have not given up and will not give up. The profits are FAR too good to abandon this little hustle. The enterprise is merely catching its breath in preparation for the future. For example, I have applied for a new 2% CC (Keesler) which I hope with luck to employ to good advantage.

Obviously there is need to go in lighter on each individual card, spreading things out, in order to avoid attracting the sort of attention from the banks I did a few months ago. Am looking forward to a profitable late fall and winter. But it’ll be a long while before I can re-approach spending a mil and a half per year. Right now am shooting for a much more realistic half a mil. That’s what, ten grand tax free each year with 2% cards? It’ll be a start, a new beginning. Yeah, ten grand tax free will be good . . . and I think I can get there without too much fuss.:grinning:

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So, have you found another CU that allows funding a CD with CC?

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Naa, I’m good. Do not need another such FI. Already have two really good counterparties and both are currently starving for my business.

This can be an issue, of course. It is the one part of my little hustle which I continue to maintain as confidential. You cannot predict what a particular FI will do . . . or when. Last year I placed $350,000 of business with one FI which, thereafter, shut me down abruptly and unceremoniously. That was following six months of smooth sailing and full disclosure. So you don’t know how things will go. It’s all day to day. But for me, so far so good, and I long ago replaced the stinkers who shut me out.

Along these same lines, related to counterparties, I want to acknowledge I might not be doing the best, or smartest, job. I write that in the following sense:

Diversity of counterparties is a good thing from a CC charge pattern perspective. Continuous charging to the same small number of FI counterparties can, I think, be viewed as imprudent. Better to have a larger stable of counterparties . . . which I do not have.

I will confess to some laziness in this regard. It takes time and effort to locate new counterparties for this game. I have not worked as diligently on this aspect as I probably should have. But this is a hobby for me, not a living, though of course I enjoy the tax-free income. But if it all ended today I would be fine. So I have not expended the effort I would have if this were a more serious matter for me.

ETA

One more comment regarding FI counterparties. This might help a newcomer to this hustle get started. I’m giving nothing away here since I no longer use this FI:

GTE, in Tampa, is the FI many people use for this hustle. So if you want a name, there I gave you one. I started out at GTE just as have many other people doing the “buy CD with CC” deal. But I no longer use them

Q: Shin obvious question: why did you stop using GTE?

I’ll answer that but first let me say the people at GTE have been consistently great to work with. It’s a good place to do business, and that includes “buy CD with CC” business except for one serious flaw:

The best you can do at GTE is a multiplier of two. Two! That stinks. The minimum multiplier I will even consider today is four, and most of my CD placements are done with a multiplier of six or even higher.

For anyone unfamiliar, the multiplier is found by dividing the term of the CD, in months, into twelve. At GTE the shortest available CD term is six months, yielding a multiplier of just two. That is not great.

The multiplier is important because it is a critical factor in your yield calculation. For example, using a 2% reward card at GTE you end up with a roughly 4% tax-free return on your money, since you can invest the same money twice each year.

I say “roughly” because, sure, there is a small native (taxable) return on the CD itself and because there is inefficiency in the process to where you need a bit of time to reinvest the same money and so forth. Those inefficiencies increase as the multiplier goes up, but you still come out WAY ahead with a higher multiplier.

There is also a school of thought which promotes running the hustle with low multiplier FIs and compensating by closing your CDs early and paying the EWP. This way of doing things appeals to some practitioners. It might appeal to you which is why I’m mentioning it. It does not appeal to me. I don’t operate that way. I have never closed a hustle CD early and I never will. There is a sharp division of opinion on this matter. Now you have mine.

My preference, again, is to take the time to locate CDs which are short term to begin with and allow them to mature naturally. That’s how I run my hustle.

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We all thought that at some point. It’s proven to be pretty inconsequential.

I appreciate this perspective. I’ve always been of the opinion of playing it straight. Open a 3-month CD, keep the dang thing for the 3 months, it was part of the deal.

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Freedom Credit Union is offering a new promo starting today on their Visa Credit card and . . .

Q: Shin, why post this here on your hustle thread? We have another thread dedicated to good CC deals. Why here?

Well, the Freedom CU Visa card is not really a good deal like the deals posted on that other thread are. I mean, it is a good deal but in other ways. I like the card for hustle purposes only and . . .

Q: Could you please be more specific?

Okay. It is only a 1% card. That hardly qualifies as special, not even close! But the card is of interest for hustle purposes for two reasons:

First, the Freedom CU card pays 1% reward on ALL purchases. I have found that to mean all charges. They do not challenge you on hustle “purchases” . . . at least they never have hassled me.

Second, their current promotion features a $200 bonus. That’s not a fortune, but it might be enough dough to interest some people.

I make good money with this card. Freedom CU gave me a high credit line. It is pretty easy, with this card, to achieve 6% APY on my dough, tax free. So bottom line it’s a good hustle card and the $200 bonus is nice, too, even for non-hustlers. :wink:

Here is your link:

Link to Freedom CU Visa promo deal

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So, you’re a PMSer?

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Requiem for a side hustle . . . . . que dirge :cry:

Things have gone from bad to worse. My little side hustle, documented up thread and already cut down to about 20% of what once was, now is very close to zero.

Blame for this goes to PSECU. I didn’t know whether to post this epitaph here or on the CD discussion thread. But this is too personal and specific to my situation to post over there, even though there is serious crossover.

Suffice it to say I’m down now to just a single card, my B of A Cash Rewards World Mastercard. All other cards, while still in good standing and fully operative, are out of the game.

Why B of A? I’m unable to resist the 3% reward, even beneath the existing exigent circumstances. I’m demurring on my Alliant 2.5% reward, at least so far.

On background, it takes liquid funds to operate my side hustle. This was ventilated up thread. At one time, for quite a long time, I had liquid funds I was holding for investment in CDs once interest rates rose. Well surprise surprise, interest rates have fallen instead. Those liquid funds were used to purchase some decent CDs months ago creating a relative shortage.

Now along comes PSECU with their wacky add-on deal. In theory the PSECU deal offers a way to invest unmatured CD funds at a higher rate than otherwise would be available. Since I don’t have those funds yet, and will not until 2020, I need liquid funds for PSECU add-on funding to bridge across the time between now and when those 2020 CDs mature. Those are the same liquid funds I was using to finance my already heavily reined in side hustle venture. So good-bye side hustle for now, with the exception of B of A.

But here is the rub:

I do not mind putting the side hustle on hold for the next several months. All the credit cards will keep without problem until my CDs mature next year and PSECU is fully funded. However I no longer trust PSECU, after their already having reneged with zero notice on their promise to extend their 3.25% CD deal to end of this month, to honor their existing add-on promise. If PSECU cancels their add-on offer, or if they alter the terms so as to make the add-on worthless to me, then I will have shut down my side hustle for nothing.

My liquid funds are limited. I don’t have enough money to do both the side hustle and play PSECU’s add-on game simultaneously. Am rolling the dice with a bet on PSECU. Outcome of that gamble will be known only in the fullness of time. You win some. You lose some. Am hoping for the best, and ability to resurrect side hustle next spring.

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Seems like getting another 2% per month is far more lucrative than a 3% APY for 3-5 years. A mere 2 more churn cycles would’ve netted you more on those funds, even if it meant being stuck with 2% CD rates after that. Locking up your liquidity for such menial interest rates was pretty counterproductive.

You cant see a distinct difference between an offer, and a executed contract? Like we just saw with GTE, the add-on terms isnt a “promise”, it’s a contractual obligation.

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Agreed, glitch99. I considered that aspect. And of course it’s a lot more than just 2%, which only strengthens your point.

But the side hustle is just that. It’s something edgy which, nevertheless, has worked out well for me thus far. The CD is close as I have to a sure thing. So I’m opting to go in that direction. Also, with luck, I’ll be able to return to the hustle after a time.

Yes, of course there is a difference. You might not be participating at PSECU. There is no contract regarding the add-on aspect. There is not even anything, from PSECU, in writing!! Yikes! They can change that add-on sucker at any time and in any manner, for any reason or none at all, and with no notice. It’s a real risk, but it also is the only game in town. I am hoping for the best.

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Your cashback ‘shenanigans’ are pretty close to a sure thing as long as your cards aren’t closed down or points clawed back. Your 2%/mo ends up being 12%/year on return. Way better than a CD APY. If you can only choose one or the other, I’d go the cash back route every day. Especially if it doesn’t take an unreasonable time to implement.

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I understand your thinking, Corndogg. And, sure, the rewards side hustle even now is netting me roughly 10%-12% on my money (I remember fondly when that number was north of 30% back when I had a multiplier of 12 and Discover was still in the first year and paying me a 3% reward. Boy, those were the days! :grinning:).

But here’s the thing, and it relates as much to the situation with CDs as it does to the side hustle:

Right or wrong, and I so easily could be full of prunes on this, I’m experiencing the instinct to lock in the highest CD yields right now that I’m able to lock in . . . for as long as possible. I’m not trying to convince anyone that I’m right about this. Smart people know it is impossible to predict the direction of interest rates. On this stuff I go with my gut, because that is all I have.

So I have this liquid money which can get me a decent rate on a three year CD, but only for a very short while longer (deal dies end of this month). I want to lock that in now while I can. Then next spring (or late winter), when my upcoming maturing CDs provide me liquidity once again, I can resume the side hustle.

I started out operating the side hustle with CD money I was holding liquid in anticipation of rising interest rates. Well, that didn’t happen! So nobody should take a cue from me as to where rates are headed. People have to decide that stuff for themselves, each individually. But after the ten year interest rate drought (2008-2018) I guess I’m just a little bit gunshy. I want that 3.25% PSECU CD. Heck, I’d even sign up for that 3.37% ten year CD I just posted over on the CD thread if I could get to Colorado! I have a really bad feeling about the direction of interest rates . . . probably wrong.

ETA

War story

Back in 2008 (or whatever) I had a bad feeling about where interest rates were headed. I actually went to Alliant and borrowed a lot of money, which I immediately invested in one of the last higher interest CDs then available. I had a maturing CD come in only weeks later, whereupon I repaid the Alliant loan, keeping the higher interest CD it had allowed me to purchase. I recall Alliant was not pleased that I paid off that loan so early. But I was pleased to have the CD it had allowed me to purchase.

Another route for those wanting to invest now because you think interest rates are falling:

Consider borrowing on an existing CD. I’ve never done that, but it’s an option that might work for some individuals depending on the financial institution where your CD is located.