The 2020 USA POTUS election politics, the civil war, and the world war (Part 1)

And that’s ignoring the fact that this is after investigating. Half the controversy is rooted in the fact that the fraud talk was summarily dismissed as “BASELESS!” long before any votes were even cast.

This is the process playing itself out. What’s been so divisive is the self-righteous insistance on imposing conclusions before there were any results to investigate. Such a curt opposition to waiting for the truth only breeds distrust.

Next: “___ says today is Tuesday, not Wednesday.”
@xerty: “That’s misrepresenting the finer point of 'it’s not Wednesday yet

Barr said there was no evidence of any widespread election fraud. Implying otherwise is not just “reading between the lines.” It’s cutting up the transcript into individual letters and pasting them onto another sheet of paper as a ransom note. Which is exactly what’s being done with the fraudulent claims by Trump and his stooges.

Edit:

President Obama: “Can I just say? Can I say: It used to be that UFOs was the, and what is it Roswell, was the biggest conspiracy. And now that seems so tame. Right? The idea that the government might have an alien spaceship? That’s nothing.”

Colbert: “Right. Now the biggest conspiracy is: 'People in Michigan vote.”

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Barr is correct in his statement. They have found nothing of significance up to now, not for lack of searching. There were minor miscounts for sure. I think the hand recounts got to slightly different numbers in a few states, not all in favor of one side or the other. Which to me sounds like honest mistakes/errors, possibly a couple of isolated incident sure but nothing like the millions of ballots difference Powell claimed.

That said, we’re a month after the election. How likely are they to find evidence now? I’d expect anyone with even vague suspicions to have come forward by now. In that context, isn’t it fair for AP to approximate “we have not found evidence of anything significant after a month of turning every stone” as “well we’re about done here.”

I understand wanting to be thorough and actually welcomed the investigations and recounts. I would also like to see SCOTUS rule on the PA situation as to whether the extension that was not voted by the PA legislature was legal or not.

But honest question from someone who’s getting tired of the mud being slung around to see if anything sticks, at what point does it become indecent and anti-American to keep questioning the integrity of the vote without any evidence? December 8th? 14? January 6th? January 21st? or November 5th 2024? When has it gone so far beyond reasonable as to undermine the public trust in the institutions? When does it start becoming obvious that the point was not to ensure fair election results (knowing the outcome won’t change) but to de-legitimize Biden’s presidency and erode confidence in the voting process for political gain?

It’s even dragging in the mud GOP elected officials because they refuse to confirm unsubstantiated claims that their election results were fraudulent or calling for the administration former security expert to be tortured to death for speaking his mind. The lack of civility we’ve gone to has been appalling this last few years and to be fair both sides have helped themselves to copious amounts of it but to me, we’re reaching levels that are very unrecognizable from the values I thought America stood for. How much more throwing away of decency, respect for others, and moral values do we have to accept before we’ve become worse than the countries we oppose for lack of these?

Why the heck would he not reveal preliminary findings ahead of the election which Biden always looked like winning at least in the polls. Strategically, Trump would have loved the ammunition and that could have derailed Biden’s campaign mightily.

Why wait until after the election? Either Biden gets elected and the damage is done, or Trump is re-elected at which point the result of the investigation no matter how incriminating would be fairly inconsequential.

So I think this is quite a bit of wishful thinking. More likely he had nothing to report that would do Biden significant harm in the run up to the election. If he found nothing major so far, that does not bode very well honestly considering that he had the assistance of the DoJ in his investigation, a luxury I’m not sure the Biden administration will extend him even if they do not rescind Barr’s directive.

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Another thing Obama is saying. You lose people with “snappy” slogans like “defund the police”. It’s less likely you won’t get the change you want. He knows how to spell it out…

At the same time he says, the killing of Floyd. a black man, triggered the call to defund the police.

Such a horrible time in our history.

Easy one. That is not how the DOJ is supposed to operate. Nothing is released until the investigation is complete.

Doubt me? Ask Comey about this. :rofl:

Seriously, if Barr had come out with preliminary results reflecting poorly on Obama/Biden prior to the election, the howls of protest from Democrats and their media toadies would have gone on endlessly.

He still has not done so, and that is proper procedure in the instance of an ongoing matter. Nevertheless, have you heard the outcries from Democrats today when they learned a special counsel had been appointed so the investigation could reach a conclusion? They went nuts!

No, no one’s heard that.
You mean just the note on Fox News that Durham is not qualified to be appointed to special counsel? That surprises no one.

I did. You must not be paying attention to the “right” news sources. :rofl:

And Durham is qualified. Even that idiot Tribe admitted it.

So now you’re claiming Sidney Powell is a Democrat?

Oh. Maybe it’s Fidel Castro that made ‘outcries’ today?

I’m claiming you’re a Hoople! :grinning:

But I do hope you’re feeling better.

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That’s a new one to me. TIL. Wow, it’s from 1928. Didn’t know you were in your 90s.

But you seem to be describing Trump rally “attendees”, or those in the Trump crime “family” itself from the last definition listed. Seems to be the antonym of the word you might want. I’m from a city, not a rural area. I have a BS. I’m irresponsible but not unscrupulous.

The normal dictionaries don’t even seem to have it anymore (webster, etc).
I’m only turning up with the following definition:
" 1. A noun; A derogatory term describing or referring to an unsophisticated person from a rural background or community. Sometimes disparaging : A white member of the Southern rural laboring class. A person who is an irresponsible or unscrupulous operator in business and pleasure."

Check under Major Hoople, an old comic strip.

I saw the references to that. The comic strip is actually “Our boarding house… with … Major Hoople”. The comic strip started in 1921…
There was also a book (unrelated).
Not going to check out the comic strip further, the example I saw was pretty terrible.
I respect whatever they classify as “simpletons” and people who are down on their luck, and it’s absurd to make fun of them.
Although, after the example I saw from the comic strip, now I’m having flashbacks of the video interviews at Trump “rallies”…

Speaking of Comey, he did come out with what was basically preliminary information and it did hurt Clinton’s campaign right before the end of the campaign. Democrat also sharply protested against him doing so back then but it did them no good at the polls. Damage was done and it was strategically worth the blowback.

Dunham was appointed special counsel mid October and he was instructed by Barr to come out with a report for public consumption too. So he could have put together something with whatever he had so far. And strategically who cares about being criticized by Dems if it meant Trump got re-elected instead of Biden. And it could have helped down ballot too to ensure Senate stays Republican. So not releasing anything while having solid evidence would have been a major missed opportunity. I’d think they’d be smarter than not using it considering the benefits vs. the risks.

Especially when you figure the impact at the polls of those reports. Muller’s report was hardly a factor in the election it seems. People mostly forgot the exact findings so Dunham coming up with incriminating report midway or early in the Biden presidency seems less advantageous than having him come up with something right before the election, even if he did not have his whole case made by then.

Read the actual letter. Durham was never appointed as special counsel, because he doesn’t qualify (he still works for the government). Barr declared only that he had assigned him “the powers of a special counsel” while intentionally skipping any reference to an actual appointment… because he had no legal authority to actually appoint Durham as a special counsel. He would have had to appoint someone who was qualified for the position.

Pretty open to legal challenges, but will probably just allow to stand, especially as special counsels are neutered anyways (see the intentional misrepresentation ‘summary’ Barr released from Mueller). That’s Congress’s doing by allowing the independent special counsel laws to expire, the new version is basically just a regular employee of whoever is the sitting AG, not independent anymore.
When Biden takes office, his AG will have full authority over Durham.

I’ve thought the same. Month after month waiting for that Durham report was maddening. I remember his giving a preliminary talk way back month ago. After that nothing!

So now maybe Barr has something else he’s working on. Regardless, hope of anything good for Trump is slowly winding down. :worried:

“At what point?” Immediately. The moment it occurs. It is always indecent to be accused of things without evidence.

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And there’s the correction of the bad AP headline about Barr and election fraud, clarifying the investigation is not done.

Some media outlets have incorrectly reported that the DOJ has concluded its investigation of election fraud and announced an affirmative finding of no fraud in the election. That is not what the Associated Press reported nor what the Attorney General stated,” a DOJ spokesperson said

Well it was what the AP headline said, just not their subsequent article if you bothered to read it. But who has time for that?

The headline said that Barr indicates none was found. To me it seems like an unjustified inference to draw a conclusion from that it means no one is looking into election security and processes anymore.
(That’s an ongoing and never- ending process, they were heavily involved before and during the election, as well…)

Yet you do this regularly. But it’s about Trump, so it’s ok.

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