Social credit in America - Politics invades personal finance

FTFY. The left hates it when their extremism is put on display for the general public which was why Libs of TikTok was such a success just reposting their own crazy rants for all to see.

And here’s their reporting on hospitals offering hysterectomies to healthy girls. Safe and reversible right?

But if the Vanderbilt gender clinic was so on the up and up, they wouldn’t need to remove their entire gender clinic website now would they? We surely wouldn’t want to deny all those suicidal dysphoric kids the access to latest in first world genital mutilation surgery?


No, it isnt. “The other side” is not out to get you. They’re merely preventing you from corrupting our children with asinine concepts.


Let me get your viewpoint straight.

You don’t think conservative states were responding to anything when they started passing “anti-CRT/ anti-gender-theory” laws that affect (among other things) what books can be in K-12 classrooms. You think that there is no such thing as K-12 educators teaching concepts that a large portion of the country (including the majority of black and hispanic parents) object to. Specifically concepts teaching that particular races are inherently privileged/victimized; that gender and sex are malleable; that sexuality is something to be explored at a very young age. Therefore, conservative states that passed those laws were just trying to make the jobs of teachers harder by making them catalog their books for no reason, because none of them have any books that could possibly be used to teach those controversial concepts.

Is that your viewpoint? If not, please clarify. I don’t want to project the incorrect views onto you as you so often do on several of us that disagree with you. I want to make sure I understand your viewpoint on this so I can properly respond.


Libs of TikTok presents lots of false stuff.

I haven’t managed to find the true details but the report has a serious flaw. Not all the surgeries were being done for gender reasons, but they were all being lumped into one category and that was used to claim gender surgery on minors. For a trans patient to have a medical need of a hysterectomy isn’t an impossibility by any means, nor is hysterectomy a typical gender surgery in the first place.

The conservatives are in a race to pass the most extreme measures to enforce their worldview that they can. Most of the problems they are attacking aren’t real.

What this really is about is creating a Potemkin view of the world where students only see the right wing view of the world.

It’s not about any special race, it’s about not teaching inconvenient history (like slavery and the Jim Crow era.) It’s about not permitting any mention of two parents of the same gender etc.

And young-age sex-ed is things like the right names for body parts and that in general people shouldn’t be touching such parts. Can’t have informed kids, that would make it harder on the pedophiles.

These laws are the “most extreme” measures? How would you classify a return to corporal punishment, mandated prayer, and a ban on same-sex dancing on the prom dance floor? ULTRA-most-extreme measures? Well at least we’re only at most-extreme!
I suppose you are one of those folks that doesn’t realize calling Mitt Romney a sexist white supremacist helped contribute to the rise of Donald Trump.

Be specific. Have there been zero K-12 teachers trying to follow CRT pedagogy? Have there been zero teachers trying to teach kids that they can change their sex? Have there been zero teachers supporting kids’ socially transitioning at school while hiding this from their parents? What specific problems are the ones conservatives are talking about and trying to pass laws to stop that aren’t actually real?

As far as I can tell, most conservatives are trying to make their children’s’ education look more like the one they received 30 years ago. Did students only see the right wing view of the world 30 years ago in K-12 schools?

Name one single law on the books in the USA that prohibits the teaching of slavery and Jim Crow in American history class. I’ll wait.

Name a law in which a teacher can be disciplined for correcting a student that is mistaken about another student having a mom and a dad when that student actually has “two moms” or “two dads.”

Since when did schools have young age sex-ed that taught this? Kids learn about their “private parts” from their parents. That’s why they are private. Why do teachers in elementary school need to teach anything about genitals? Kids don’t take biology in elementary school.

Are you now arguing that conservatives don’t want elementary school teachers telling kids about their private parts because conservatives want pedophiles to have an easier time seducing children?

What percentage would you say of libs of tiktok posts are not actual people expressing their actual beliefs? I know some people faking things just to say “hey, I bet some conservative will think this is real” do get through on libs of tik tok. But what portion of their posts are people doing that versus actual libs giving their actual opinions or actual teachers saying what they actually do in their classrooms?

So it isn’t impossible for a trans patient to need a hysterectomy. Ok. I’m on board with that. How many of the hysterectomies they performed on teenagers were medically necessary for the physical health of the patient? How many were elective? Are those legitimate questions to ask? If they aren’t performing elective hysterectomies, would that be an extremely easy question for the clinic to answer?


Nonsense. They are in a “race” to remedy the issues before even more damage is done to our youth.

This entire issue is about teachers refusing to follow the state instructional standards. When you kid keeps getting into trouble for not listening, do you just give up and accept his argument that your rules are just too extreme?

If they arent real, then there’s nothing to get bent out of shape over. You should be laughing at how they’re wasting their time on legislation that has no practical effect.

People get bent out of shape over these laws because they are in fact restricting their desired instructional plans.

In a sense this is correct - the part you omitted, of course, is that the “right wing view” consists of teaching 2+2=4, as opposed to the liberal standard of 2+2 equaling whatever you happen to feel that day, and being dependant on what race or gender you may be.

Subjective standards should be taught at home. You can be damn certain that those teachers trying to push the notion of gender fluidity are not also teaching how that is just one viewpoint and a majority of people accept the fact that biological science dictates gender. They’re teaching that those who do not follow this cult-like belief are intollerant extremists. THAT is the underlying factor in all this.

It’s about not being allowed to teach that Little Joey can pass math with a 25 while little Suzie need to get an 80 to pass, because 200 years ago one of Suzie’s ancestors might’s known a person who owned one of Joey’s ancestors. That isnt teaching about slavery.

Well, yeah. And that’s what these laws are working towards, rather than letting teachers teach that girls can have penises too. As I said initially, if you are offended by the oversight, then be pissed at your fellow teachers who have made the ovesight necessary. And if you’re instructional plans are being muted by such oversight, then you need to check yourself and accept the fact that you are part of the problem and share the blame for these additional burdens.


They want little Johnny saying how it’s weird that little Jane has two moms to be considered a hate crime. Conservatives only expect little Johnny to be scolded, as he would be for saying anything rude to any of his classmates.

The difference is having rules and standards for all students, or having special rules and special standards for certain students.


I said a race–not “as extreme as possible” but “more extreme than the other state”.

Even if there are isolate cases it’s irrelevant. Or should we require pre-approval of everything a priest says because some are pedophiles?

The only thing here that has any real basis in reality is hiding from the parents that a kid is transgender. Make the teacher tell and they simply won’t be told, the only “help” this will be is in causing more suicides.

30 years is a bit short but I agree with the basic idea of what you’re saying. The conservatives are trying to throw away everything we have learned about people since then and go back to an illusion. That illusion will make the parents happier but it harms the kids.

They’re careful not to be quite so clear about it–rather, it’s about not teaching things that might disturb the kids. Sorry, but what man has done to man is disturbing. Teaching what actually happened could be disturbing to the child of white supremacists.

Since there aren’t teachers deliberately doing that there’s no reason for such a law.

And the parents fall down on the job badly. And this isn’t biology, it’s basic anatomy.

That is the effect of many of their policies–keeping kids in the dark helps abusers. Whether it’s through intent or ignorance I do not know.

Strawman! I said nothing about beliefs. I said about facts–a lot of their stuff is lies and deception. Whether they are the ones perpetuating it or simply repeating what they have been told I do not know.

As for how many hysterectomies were medical in nature–it’s unlikely that we can check this. However, the fact that the way the data was presented leaves this possibility open makes me think the answer is 100%–if it wasn’t I would expect the data to have been presented differently. (And note that you don’t know the meaning of “elective”–in medical terminology “elective” covers anything that’s scheduled. The opposite is “STAT”, not “necessary”.)

Many of us believe it’s a race to cause damage, not protect from damage.

The costs to defend against a threat do not go away just because there is no actual threat. Would building a wall on the west coast of Alaska (where it’s near Russia) be free because no illegals come across that way?

You’ve got it exactly backwards–it’s the right wing that wants to substitute opinions for facts. Pretending homosexuality doesn’t exist won’t make it go away.

I’m not a teacher, thus I have no fellow teachers. And it’s not the instructional plans being muted, it’s the effort required to permit verification that’s the problem. The effort is huge, teachers already are doing a lot of work at home off the clock, this is just more of it.

Note that people in general interpret “weird” as “wrong”, this is an act of hate. And it would be just as much hate to say how weird it is that Jane has a mother and a father, it’s just nobody’s doing that so it’s a non-issue.

In practice, nobody’s going to do more than scold over this, it becomes an issue when it’s done over and over. They want the right to keep doing this to make Jane feel bad and perhaps drive her out of the school.

So, you’ve decided what they’re trying to do, and then when they dont do what you’ve decided they’re just being careful to hide it? Maybe you should stop presuming everything is done with clandestine motives, and just consider that maybe what they are doing is in fact what they’re doing…

Nonsense. No one is trying to silence such lessons. The problems when those lessons are being used to justify harassing the blonde white girl, torching the local CVS, and lowering standards but only for some.

If you want to believe that Johnny’s great-great-great-great-grandad being a slave is the reason Johnny’s culture has left him with a crappy home life and crappy grades in school, fine (there may even be something to it). But the solution to remedy that disadvantage is to change that culture, improve his home life, and encourage him to work harder to earn more grades - in that order. Not lower the standards he’s being measured against.

It’s all reactionary. Every last bit of it. You can perceive anything you want to be damaging, the only reality is that you are the ones who put the changes on the table in the first place. Yours is the only side trying to cause anything. Without your pushing for changes, there is nothing to react to.

X + Y chromosomes = male. That’s fact. “I feel like a male, therefore I am a male regardless of my biology” is the opposite of a fact.

Homosexuality is all psychological, there is not a shred of physical evidence indicating it. It’s a belief. And a belief that I can respect. But it is not a fact - the only “fact” is the fact that some believe it. The same can be said for those who are straight - it’s simply a belief.

I know you want to - nay, need to so your argument doesnt sound entirely insane - deflect this little detail, but when talking about facts we are talking about biological, physical, indisputable facts.

So my point stands. Some people deserve to be treated special, and others do not deserve the same protections under the law.

That’s called bullying. And there are rules about bullying that apply to everyone. How can you face the quiet scrawny white boy who gets picked on every day, which never results in anything more than an occasional scolding, while the black boy with gay parents who gets picked on every day get the protection of (sometimes literally) a federal case with drastic consequences? All you accomplish is to teach that white boy that his feelings matter less because he isnt special enough. Y’all love to complain about school shootings and other mass violence events, is there any consideration at all about how this might possibly be a [pretty significant] contributing factor?

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How is it a belief? The physical evidence indicating :arrow_heading_down: for He-Thor and :butterfly: :heart_eyes_cat: :arrow_upper_right: for She-Thor does not occur simply because I believe I’m straight. It’s a biological, physical, indisputable fact.

Not to nitpick, but I interpret “weird” as “strange” or “rare” and more likely an act of ignorance. Even “wrong” can be an act of ignorance.


It isnt physical, it’s psychological. I’m not saying it’s a conscious choice someone makes, but it is all in one’s head. You cannot take a corpse and determine it’s sexual orientation during an autopsy; if you didnt know them previously, that question can never be answered. There is no gay gene, or an extra gland that scretes a gay hormone. Homosexuality is really no different than being attracted to plump women and turned off by scrawny ones, or visa versa. In everyone’s mind, some things are more appealing than others. And in that same vein, people can lie and there’s no way for you to know they’re lying. Maybe “belief” isnt the exactly correct word, but its a core value that comes from somewhere other than your indisputable physical construct.

Conversely, even if you dont want to rely on observation, you can determine gender with a simple blood test. There is no discretion involved; no matter how much someone may try to pretend otherwise, the facts are the facts.

I wouldn’t say “no such thing”, but the actual problem was a tiny bit of it. This is really about scrubbing education of any trace of anything other than the Christian-approved version of life.

Nobody’s inherently victimized. The reality is that non-whites have been victimized badly, but it’s not inherent. Gender & sex are not malleable, but there are cases where the mental picture doesn’t match the physical one–if they were malleable then such people could simply change themselves. And nobody is trying to explore sexuality at a young age–the conservatives want kids to know absolutely nothing, the liberals want them to have an age-appropriate understanding of their bodies.

I assume clandestine motives because they’re utterly obvious. You actually have to think about the situation to see what they’re requiring rather than just listen to the spoon-fed version.

No. That’s what the right-wingers would have you believe but it doesn’t make it true.

No, you’re trying to changes that have already happened.

They made that mistake before–they tried to be more discreet and switched from physical inspection to genetic screening to weed out males competing as females in high level sporting competitions. Oops, IIRC it was something like 1 in 1000 people that are to all anatomical observations female but are XY. (Such women tend to have menstrual and fertility issues, but they are women–their bodies are insensitive to testosterone and thus develop female.) (And if you want really wonky, there’s a condition that’s very rare where their bodies are insensitive to the version of testosterone produced prenatally, but react normally to the version produced at puberty. They are born outwardly female but develop male genitalia at puberty.)

If homosexuality were entirely psychological it would not be observed in animals. Of course there’s no physical evidence, it’s all in the brain.

On the other hand, I’m in the camp that thinks there is no such thing as homosexuality or heterosexuality. Rather, I believe we have two systems–one for being attracted to males and one for being attracted to females. Heterosexuality is simply the result of the opposite-sex one being turned on and the same-sex one being turned off. Homosexuality is the reverse. Bisexuality is both being turned on, asexuality is neither being turned on. It makes a lot more sense from a biological standpoint.

When it comes from other students it’s a form of bullying–and schools have a very bad track record in dealing with bullying. Sometimes people use it to make federal cases to get the school to take action. They’re only asking for what should have happened anyway.

The primary cause of mass violence events is news about mass violence events. And note that most mass violence events are forms of suicide–for triggers look for people who are being driven to suicide.

And we have no control over what we are attracted to. Why should consenting adults be prohibited from being with what they are attracted to?

And here you’re wrong. I don’t know the population prevalence (most cases go undetected) but amongst elite athletes it’s in the ballpark of 1 in 1000 where the blood test says male but the body is female. The default pattern for humans is to be female. The Y gene codes for testosterone, but if it doesn’t work we stay female.

At the biocheemical level there’s an awful lot of rube goldberg stuff in the body, chains with many steps to accomplish something. Every step is a situation where something could go wrong. Most of these you’ll never see because they’re lethal, but if a defect isn’t incompatible with life you’ll probably see it in somebody.

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I wouldnt even go that far. Each person is attracted to whatever they’re attracted to. Being “attracted to females” isnt really a thing (its too generic) - case in point, I know lots of females I am attracted to and a ton of females that I definately am not attracted to. People are attracted to certain qualities and characteristics, not gender. Those characteristics may tend to reside in one gender over the other, but they are not universal, or even mutually exclusive, to that gender.

Then maybe we should be trying to solve that problem, rather than trying to solve it for only a special subset of those being bullied?

Then why do you always make it such a spectacle when it does happen? Wouldnt the appropriate response be to treat it like TV networks treat streakers at a ball game? According to this comment, making it the primary focus of multiple news cycles only perpetuates more occurances.

I dont disagree, that was the entire point of my comment. I’m looking at those being told their feelings dont matter and are second rate to other certain special groups of people.

The intended benefactors of the transgender rights movement are not those anomalies. The benefactors are those with psychological conditions, which we are now expected to indulge rather than treat.

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I half agree. For most men female features are a required characteristic but not sufficient for attraction.

What we have is some parents applying laws meant for other purposes to try to protect their kids.

I’m not a reporter, don’t blame me.

We have no treatment. Conversion therapy just makes a mess, it doesn’t work.

I hope the firefighter lawyers up.

In a related case, from Palo Alto down the peninsula from Frisco

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While it’s not true nationally, CA forbids discrimination by employers against a wide range of political activities by employees that would seem to cover this situation.

Of course if the CA legislature was writing those bills today, I’m sure it’d read more like their proposed covid regulations, where doctors can be stripped of their license for having different opinions than the CA regulators, and the political activism at work would be protected only if you were left or far left.

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Doctors can be stripped of their licenses for supporting medical treatments that have been disproven, not merely a matter of opinion. You don’t get to make up your own facts, both Invermectin and Hydrochloroquine show a bit of benefit in the lab but it doesn’t translate into any use in the field because the effective dose is far above the lethal dose. Killing pathogens is easy, killing them without killing the patient is the tricky part.

Actually, the tricky part for ivermectin is getting the results that show it works well published. Or in many cases, after it was peer reviewed and published, keeping it from being inexplicably retracted by the editor for a phat Pharma paycheck, despite them not raising any issues with the evidence or methodology in their retraction but “just didn’t agree with the conclusion” that might be a worthwhile covid treatment.

Plenty of examples here